Quitting nicotine

[Octave]

Anyone here wish to commiserate on the abject discomfort that is nicotine addiction? I find it to be a fascinating outlier in the world of addictions, since it follows very few of the rules that other drugs do. First, it is not an objectively pleasurable drug. In fact, most people have to persevere through the initial unpleasant side-effects before it becomes pleasurable. Second, it does not exhibit any clinical withdrawal symptoms other than craving; there are no cold-sweats, no sickness, no seizures, no cramps, just an unrelenting "wanting." It also, aside from expense, carries very few immediately evident downsides, especially if one uses a vaporizer instead of cigarettes - there's no notable lung harm (or if there is, it is subtle or outlier cases like the current rash of poisonings in the US), it doesn't stink, it has pretty negligable effects on the immune system, it can be done pretty much anytime/anywhere. And there's the rub: the modern nicotine vaporizer is a wonderfully designed little addiction stick. Aside from looking a bit daft, there's hardly a notable downside to using it and for the most part, no one takes notice and you can puff away on it at pretty much any time of the day.

My own story starts in high school, when I started smoking cigarettes largely to cover the scent of pot or to have an excuse to hang out outside of school on the cool-kids corner. That blossomed into a full blown cigarette habit which I eventually kicked near the end of college, when I got serious about cycling. I kept away from tobacco all throughout grad school, then I moved to France. Smoking here is treated very differently. There's hardly a stigma, and in some places it's quite the opposite. In the first few months here, my wife and I got a local woman to tutor us in French and we would sit at a bar or café and spend 3-4 hours studying and speaking in French. I turned back to cigarettes as a way to 'pause' these sessions with our tutor. All three of us would take a beat, roll a cigarette, and just bask in that nicotine buzz for the few minutes it took to smoke before getting back to working. This 1-2/day elevated to 3-4/day when we started going out to a local dive bar below our apartment before dinner for a little "apéro." Then I'd add one with coffee at work when I needed a break and wanted to be a bit social...

After a couple of years at this steady-state of 5-6, then 8-10 cigarettes per day all of the little excuses ended. My wife and I both stopped needing language tutoring, we also quite alcohol entirely, and I remembered how much I hated benign social interactions and stopped having coffee with colleagues. Voila, end of the cigarette. But, out of curiosity I picked up a vaporizer. It was an immediate satisfaction of that little buzz, whenever, wherever, at the click of a button. A little vial of 3mg/ml nicotine turned into a couple, then up to 6mg/ml, and eventually without really noticing I was consuming the equivalent of two packs of cigarettes worth of nicotine every day. I never got that dreaded "smoker's cough," I never had to excuse myself rom a dinner table to step outside and smoke, and it was all relatively unexpensive. The behavior becomes very easily normalized. It became part of my EDC. Wallet, keys, pocket knife and vape. It came with me on hiking trips, bikepacking, to the museum, to the lab, to visit friends and family. And when the bottle got low, I'd scheme about what was the most convenient time to restock. The reality is that no one really notices, and so the addiction never seems like an addiction because it lacks one of the prime hallmarks of addictive behavior: perseverance in the face of negative consequences is irrelevant when there are no immediately evident negative consequences. Hell, I never even had to plug the thing into a wall because I'd charge it off my dynamo hub while riding to/from work. It all seemed so benign.

But I'm a stubborn mule, and the idea of being dependent on anything or anyone, a shop being open or a battery being charged, was a constant disturbance in the back of my mind. So one morning, I seized the opportunity of feeling particularly guilty about my little dependence and I gave the vape to my wife to recycle in the electronics recycling bin near her work. I knew that if I told myself I'd just use up this last bottle, or that I'd bring it into my lab for electronics recycling, I'd just start again (and that exact scenario had played out a half-dozen times over the past year or so). So, I had to admit my own weakness, my pathetic little dependence, and give it up while I had the courage. Like ripping off a band-aid.

Fast forward through the worst of it (the constant nagging little voice, the instinctive reach to the pocket, the occupying thoughts) and I can honestly say, having quit cigarettes, a two-year opioid dependence, and given up booze (though the latter was never a serious problem, just a bad habit), that nicotine from that dumb little gadget is the most difficult addiction I've ever faced. Despite a complete lack of physiological withdrawal, the absolute constant-ness of it left a big hole in my daily routines. I'll never say I'm "in the clear," but I think I've finally left nicotine behind.

To those of you who've managed to avoid this particular evil, kudos. To those who have a nicotinic devil hanging out on their shoulder, by the grace of Merckx may you overcome. I wanted to post this because I know, especially in the age of e-cigarettes, that nicotine is the easiest addiction to keep to ourselves. Feel free to air your own story here.

[Too Tall]

I've got nothing but huge respect for your intention. Glad you are saying this outloud.
I've got little to add other than I rolled my own thru three years of college and the strangest thing happened. I got a horrific lung infection and could not smoke. I had just purchased a tin of incredible hand picked cut tobbacco that was beckoning. The smell was intoxicating but the chest infection stopped me from indulging. The infection lasted several weeks. During the course of that I developed a visceral reaction to cigarette smoke and associated that with my own habits. That was a coincidence or fortunate association I do not know but it persists to this day. I can not stand the smell of cigarette smoke and think about that chest cold every time I'm "trapped" in someone else's cloud.

The Vapes carrier fluids danger are only just now revealing themselves so I'd caution to not be immediately dismissive. Yah they are clever but than again we thought the same thing about smokeless one hitters too ;)

I've been told by friends who are in recovery from Heroin addiction that cigarettes are almost as bad when it comes to the craving/want.

To be honest, it took years until I no longer desired a cigarette after a meal.

[Octave]

To be honest, it took years until I no longer desired a cigarette after a meal.

My PhD was all done on the underlying neurobiology of a phenomenon that is termed "incubation of craving" which has been found with opiates, alcohol, nicotine and stimulants like cocaine. It follows the great saying, "getting people off of drugs is easy - keeping people off of drugs is hard." Essentially, our brains create deep associations between the pleasurable stimuli (drug) and various otherwise neutral stimuli. Your brain created a relationship between finishing a meal and having a smoke, just like a dope addict who buys his gear in the bathroom of a McDonald's might get a little burst of "ooh ahh" every time he sees the golden arches. When one quits a drug there are two phases: acute withdrawal (the shakes, tremors, sweats, nausea..etc.) and incubated withdrawal, which actually increases the potency of this association for years. While it might be easy to get through the acute withdrawal given the right conditions (a lush rehab clinic away from all those associated triggers), back in the real world it gets much harder while the incubated withdrawal gets stronger over time.

On a related note, there is a still un-sussed-out factor where the brain is able to hit a "reset" button (there are good theories and evidence for what this button is, if anyone is interested in the boring nitty-gritty of it all). I watched this happen in college to a number of people, mostly under the influence of potent psychedelics. A two pack-a-day smoker friend of mine and I were out at a desert rave known as Moon Tribe back in 2008 somewhere in the badlands outside of LA, swimming in the weirdness of a handful of magic little pieces of paper, when she went to get a cigarette out. She paused, totally overcome with the visceral reaction of disgust at the thought of lighting up and inhaling that noxious smoke. She handed me the pack and said "find someone who wants these" and never mentioned it again. 12 years later she hasn't had another cigarette.

Brains are weird.

[deano]

My dad, who did not smoke, died of lung cancer, that is all the motivation I need, until it's not. The soul is funny about those moral calculi. I smoked a year as a journo and I was working too much and depressed. Since then it's either none or bumming smokes off friends at campfires or outside a pub... But I got kiddos now and I am afraid every time I feel a little pain in my back or chest. Still, a good cig is nice. In heaven there will be no cancer or heart disease but there will be tobac. I only like the smell when I am feeling tip top. Any cold or asthma situation and I am repelled.

[Matthew Strongin]

I started in high school and eventually, by college, was smoking around one to one and a half packs a day. That continued up to my mid-20s when a very troubled first marriage that took me on a first hand "adventure" of the depths and despair of addiction made me realize that I needed to step away from any chemical substances. I quit caffeine, alcohol and cigarettes. I wasn't alcohol dependent, so that was more about making better choices. Caffeine was hard. Very hard. But I was fine in a couple weeks. It took a couple years to fully quit nicotine and I've now been nicotine free for almost 18 years. And when I'm stressed, do you know what my first thought is....I need a smoke. I started drinking alcohol again eventually, after I was out of the woods from that marriage and could do so in a "healthy" way. But I still consider myself a nicotine addict consider how strong the pull is. It's crazy that I can smell cigarette smoke and be simultaneously disgusted and desperately want one. I just have to remind myself of how hard quitting was, and that usually helps the urge pass. Other times I remind myself that my wife would kill me if I started again. But that feeling is still there and I suspect it always will be.

So, yeah, brains are weird.

[defspace]

I'm really interested to follow the progress of this thread. Despite all the stupid stuff I did in college, I never became addicted to nicotine. Caffeine on the other hand - that's a full blown addiction for me. Like a true addict, I keep a bottle of caffeine pills in my glove box to just be sure I never get caught out.

Like most scary things, addiction is really interesting. I'd enjoy hearing the neuroscience behind it.

After catching Episode 667 of This American Life I started listening to the Dopey podcast, the self-proclaimed podcast about "drugs, addiction, and dumb shit." It truly seems like there are those for whom addiction is nearly preordained, you just need right mix of predisposition and exposure.

[Too Tall]

My PhD was all done on the underlying neurobiology of a phenomenon that is termed "incubation of craving" which has been found with opiates, alcohol, nicotine and stimulants like cocaine. It follows the great saying, "getting people off of drugs is easy - keeping people off of drugs is hard." Essentially, our brains create deep associations between the pleasurable stimuli (drug) and various otherwise neutral stimuli. Your brain created a relationship between finishing a meal and having a smoke, just like a dope addict who buys his gear in the bathroom of a McDonald's might get a little burst of "ooh ahh" every time he sees the golden arches. When one quits a drug there are two phases: acute withdrawal (the shakes, tremors, sweats, nausea..etc.) and incubated withdrawal, which actually increases the potency of this association for years. While it might be easy to get through the acute withdrawal given the right conditions (a lush rehab clinic away from all those associated triggers), back in the real world it gets much harder while the incubated withdrawal gets stronger over time.

On a related note, there is a still un-sussed-out factor where the brain is able to hit a "reset" button (there are good theories and evidence for what this button is, if anyone is interested in the boring nitty-gritty of it all). I watched this happen in college to a number of people, mostly under the influence of potent psychedelics. A two pack-a-day smoker friend of mine and I were out at a desert rave known as Moon Tribe back in 2008 somewhere in the badlands outside of LA, swimming in the weirdness of a handful of magic little pieces of paper, when she went to get a cigarette out. She paused, totally overcome with the visceral reaction of disgust at the thought of lighting up and inhaling that noxious smoke. She handed me the pack and said "find someone who wants these" and never mentioned it again. 12 years later she hasn't had another cigarette.

Brains are weird.

I've been following related research on MDMA for years.
I took LSD once during college and lost higher math abilities for six months. Apparently, I'm a light weight. I'll stick to Hazy IPA ;)
Caffeine is good, full stop. Do not ever get between me and a cup of coffee. Luv yah.

[guido]

I was addicted to tobacco for 13 years. Two packs of unfiltered turkish a day for most of it. Kicked shortly before I turned 30. One of the best things I have ever done. A certain deep tug remained every time I took a sip of coffee for years. Finally passed. Phew...

[j44ke]

Hey Octave, find something to do with your hands, especially in social situations. Good that you are not drinking also, because then you would have to figure out what to do with both hands. Make a list of all the things you used to do with a cigarette in your hand. Really hard to go to a party and talk to people without anything in either hand. Your hands don't know what to do with themselves. They get bored and then you get bored and you realize the party is boring, but you like parties - or at least you liked parties when your hands had something to do at them - but now you'd just rather...what?

That's the challenge. Not how not to do the thing you used to do but what things to do now that you aren't doing the thing you used to do.

What to do with your hands.

Camera.

Pen/pencil and notebook.

Small rock/pebble/stone.

Get a small pocket knife and find a piece of wood - something with a naturally occurring shape off a tree or similar - that looks interesting. Anytime you want to smoke, pull out the wood and knife and do a little shaping. You are done when the piece of wood is perfectly smooth and without edges. Get another piece of wood. A friend did this while she was quitting. She has a bowl in her living room of these small pieces of wood that are smooth undulating shapes. Largest might be 3". Most are about 1-1.5". She still makes them. Still quitting.

[false_aesthetic]

Ugh.

I started smoking around age 13 or 14. Cuz teenagers are idiots and I could buy them from a vending machine for $1.75.
Casual like. Then, after HS, I got a job working in construction. I could smoke all day long . . . and did.
Then I went to art school and worked in the foundry there. 11pm - 3am I could melt metal and smoke while I did it.
I quit the 2nd year of grad school (age 26 or so).

I'm 38 — 12 years later— and on colder, rainy days I crave a cup of shitty coffee in a styrofoam cup with powdered creamer and too much sugar, and a Chesterfield King (because . . . well, I smoked 'em because a punk band wrote a song about them. . . . I told you teenagers are idiots).

[zachateseverything]

The thing about vaping is that for non-nicotine addicted bystanders, it's only slightly less annoying than tobacco smoke. The smell doesn't linger as much as cigarettes but I could also do without the whiffs of cotton candy or mango when I'm at a concert or out riding my bike and get passed by a Subaru WRX or Focus ST. I could also do without jerks deciding that it's ok to use their vape pen in public spaces and facilities that would otherwise ban smoking.

Vaping also seems to be a heck of a treadmill. I know a lot of people that started vaping to get away from smoking and with the intent of slowly weening themselves off of nicotine. Most of them ended up with a bigger nicotine addiction. A couple years ago I briefly dated a girl with a noticeable vaping issue. She had been a super heavy smoker so this was at least a damage mitigation thing. She couldn't easily go more than 30 minutes without wanting to take a puff. At that frequency the water vapor takes a real toll on your oral health. She tasted like an ashtry a couple times so I bailed.

[caleb]

I smoked for a couple years in high school. Never heavy, just enough to show I was tough. Mostly outdoors, which in Minnesota means often in the cold.

To this day, at least 20 years since I last smoked a cigarette, on a morning where it's less than 15 or 20 degrees and I walk by someone smoking I'll get a blood rush to my face. It happened just this morning. The weird part is that even then I don't want a cigarette and can't really imagine putting one in my mouth anymore. Powerful stuff, those cancer sticks.

[sk_tle]

I probably smoked less than 15 cigarettes in 40y, most of them during new year eve alongside a handful of weed joints that didn't even do anything to me.

Not enough to be addicted.

[NorTX-Dave]

Luckily I never smoked....tobacco anyway. Military service quashed my fondness for smoking anything else.

My Grandmother was a multi pack-a-day smoker for probably 40 + years, and my Grandfather would smoke a cigar while chewing tobacco. When he lost 1/2 his jaw to cancer she stopped cold turkey after which she became a vapid anti-smoker.

[caleb]

@Octave Have you read Peter Schjeldahl's piece The Art of Dying in last month's New Yorker? It's a powerful portrait of the major role addiction played in his life.

Lung cancer, rampant. No surprise. I’ve smoked since I was sixteen, behind the high-school football bleachers in Northfield, Minnesota. I used to fear the embarrassment of dying youngish, letting people natter sagely, “He smoked, you know.” But at seventy-seven I’m into the actuarial zone.

I know about ending a dependency. I’m an alcoholic twenty-seven years sober. Drink was destroying my life. Tobacco only shortens it, with the best parts over anyway...

[Octave]

I'm really interested to follow the progress of this thread. Despite all the stupid stuff I did in college, I never became addicted to nicotine. Caffeine on the other hand - that's a full blown addiction for me. Like a true addict, I keep a bottle of caffeine pills in my glove box to just be sure I never get caught out.

Like most scary things, addiction is really interesting. I'd enjoy hearing the neuroscience behind it.

After catching Episode 667 of This American Life I started listening to the Dopey podcast, the self-proclaimed podcast about "drugs, addiction, and dumb shit." It truly seems like there are those for whom addiction is nearly preordained, you just need right mix of predisposition and exposure.

I've waxed and waned with caffeine over the years, hitting my peak in grad school for obvious reasons. I cut back a fair bit when I finished my doctorate and now it's a pre-ride 40g chemex in the morning (6am) split with my wife, an allongée when I get to the lab (9h30) and an espresso after lunch. Anything after 4pm and I have trouble sleeping, so that's an easy one.

The neuroscience of addiction is pretty well understood these days. One of the magic little things underlying the whole "reset button" phenomenon is actually alpha-nicotinic receptors, which despite their name do a lot more than just respond to nicotine (just like cannabinoid receptors do a lot more than respond to cannabis, they're just named so because their first ligand discovered was THC, not the endogenous neurotransmitters). These receptors modulate many of the so-called reward pathways of the brain, mainly in limbic areas like the nucleus accumbens, amygdala, dorsal striatum and eventually connecting to the prefrontal cortex. Over time, their shape or "confirmation" changes. This makes them more sensitive, more likely to send that feel-good signal. Certain experiences, especially psychedelics (read about Ibogaine if you're interested) can actually cause these receptors to reset to their original confirmation. There are clinics, largely in south america and a few in Canada which actually administer Ibogaine, which is a largely unpleasant 24+hr psychedelic trip (having been there I cannot recommend it for any recreational purposes); afterwards, people who were spending all day shooting junk and then snorting speed just to stay awake to shoot more junk walk out with zero withdrawal, zero craving, and follow-up studies show a really high rate (often 85%+) of abstinence for years afterwards. It's pretty amazing. There are a few labs (Dutch and Brazilian at the moment) who are getting into the nitty gritty of it, mostly trying to figure out of they can synthesize non-psychoactive analogues which would achieve the same effect without the trip, the way nor-LSD was developed years ago to potentially treat PTSD without acting as a psychedelic.

I've been following related research on MDMA for years.
I took LSD once during college and lost higher math abilities for six months. Apparently, I'm a light weight. I'll stick to Hazy IPA ;)
Caffeine is good, full stop. Do not ever get between me and a cup of coffee. Luv yah.

Funny, before I started my PhD I spent a year working with MAPS (the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies) on their MDMA/PTSD project. The study I worked on lead to them getting approval for Phase 2 FDA trials and they're now within spitting distance of really getting this stuff to open clinics. Amazing stuff.

Hey Octave, find something to do with your hands, especially in social situations. Good that you are not drinking also, because then you would have to figure out what to do with both hands. Make a list of all the things you used to do with a cigarette in your hand. Really hard to go to a party and talk to people without anything in either hand. Your hands don't know what to do with themselves. They get bored and then you get bored and you realize the party is boring, but you like parties - or at least you liked parties when your hands had something to do at them - but now you'd just rather...what?

The thing is, I've never been a social smoker or drinker. Most of the drinking I've done has been with my wife, either just the two of us at a bar or at home. When I see people I tend to stay sober or have a little cannabis, mostly because I like to be sharp when I'm interacting with people. But then again, I'm not much of a socializer to begin with. The biggest issue is less my hands and more what to do with the little gaps in my day when I need to step away from what I'm doing and just stare into the woods for a minute. Being a writer means I spend hours and hours in front of a screen or with a notebook, and sometimes I just need to put it down and go take a breather. This was when I was mostly hitting the nicotine. Now I go to step outside and immediately reach into my pocket to grab the vaporizer. Instead, I've been working (with my hands) on a skill I've totally let flounder in the past decade: knots. When I was younger I was really into climbing and general camping knots, and would practice them all the time. So I cut a piece of paracord to carry with me and have been re-teaching myself all the knots I used to know. So yeah, the hands it is :)

The thing about vaping is that for non-nicotine addicted bystanders, it's only slightly less annoying than tobacco smoke. The smell doesn't linger as much as cigarettes but I could also do without the whiffs of cotton candy or mango when I'm at a concert or out riding my bike and get passed by a Subaru WRX or Focus ST. I could also do without jerks deciding that it's ok to use their vape pen in public spaces and facilities that would otherwise ban smoking.

Vaping also seems to be a heck of a treadmill. I know a lot of people that started vaping to get away from smoking and with the intent of slowly weening themselves off of nicotine. Most of them ended up with a bigger nicotine addiction. A couple years ago I briefly dated a girl with a noticeable vaping issue. She had been a super heavy smoker so this was at least a damage mitigation thing. She couldn't easily go more than 30 minutes without wanting to take a puff. At that frequency the water vapor takes a real toll on your oral health. She tasted like an ashtry a couple times so I bailed.

Re: the first part, I totally agree. I never got into the flavored stuff, it always seemed pretty gross. But you're completely right about the use in public spaces where smoking isn't allowed. That's the nature of addiction, though - lots of rationalizations..

As for the second part, you really nailed it. Because of the ease of use and the false sense that it can be done pretty much anywhere (for instance, I'd never smoke a cigarette in a car but a vape? sure. The women who run the cantine here on our lab's campus do so with a vape in one hand. I see cyclists with vapes when big group rides are stopped for a nature break, something you'd never see with a cigarette). That means the tolerance skyrockets so that old 3mg/ml bottle seems like water, so you buy the 6mg/ml. Here in France the absolute limit is 20mg/ml and only in 10ml bottles. The crazy sh*t is the nic-salt which is what Juul and others like that use. It's actually absorbed into the bloodstream faster than pg/vg vapor and much faster than smoke, so the "hit" comes on even faster. Plus they are more concentrated and there's essentially no limit. When I was smoking tobacco I never really went beyond 10 cigarettes a day. With a vaporizer I was consuming the nicotine equivalent of 30, easily. High-school kids with Juul sticks could be consuming the nicotine equivalent of 3 packs a day without even noticing. It's absolutely wild.

@Octave Have you read Peter Schjeldahl's piece The Art of Dying in last month's New Yorker? It's a powerful portrait of the major role addiction played in his life.

I have now. Thanks for the rec. Well worth the read.

[Too Tall]

eversoslightlyofftopic. Have you seen this? >> Animated Knots by Grog | Learn how to tie knots with step-by-step animation

When looking for a great knot to add for a line with loops I found this website. Ever since I've been doing the same as you. LOL If John Wayne was a sailor he might have said "you can tell alot about a man by the way he ties his knots".

OK, back on your heads.

[Peter Polack]

Add smartphone addiction to the list.

[sk_tle]

Vaping also seems to be a heck of a treadmill. I know a lot of people that started vaping to get away from smoking and with the intent of slowly weening themselves off of nicotine. Most of them ended up with a bigger nicotine addiction.

I have two pals who started vaping with nicotine in the idea of reducing. The fact that it was so easily available, refillable and that they could vape quickly and secretly in a quiet room, office or bathroom in a place that ban any kind of smoking or vaping made them so addicted they ended up spending their days with their vaporizer in their hand sort of like frodo and the ring. It annoyed so much their relative they ended up smoking back, and more than they used to before vaping.

I think vaping is only an help if you use nicotine-less fluids, in a short transition phase before finding something to do with your hands.

[Octave]

I think vaping is only an help if you use nicotine-less fluids, in a short transition phase before finding something to do with your hands.

While I think the case of your friends who escalated their use is quite common, I will say that I know a number of people here who successfully quit smoking with the help of a vape. They calculated the milligrams of nicotine they were consuming via cigarettes, started with liquid that was similar, then progressively diluted the liquid until they were at 0mg/ml. After that they were able to break the habit much more easily.