It’s telling that there’s no Impeachment thread on VS...

[bcm119]

If you haven't heard, American farmers have been getting government subsidies since the 1930s.

By FDR, a Democrat.

Are you saying helping farmers is a bad thing?

And are you willing to criticize every President since FDR? Or only the current guy who wasn't even born when this all started?

I am not saying helping farmers is a bad thing, but that's because I'm not a conservative. My point was that many of Trump's policies are exactly opposite of traditional conservative policy, and this was a shining example of that. I do think this particular case of helping farmers is beyond reasonable, since it is a direct result of tariffs that were supposed to "pay for themselves", and the gov subsidy, in the words of the whitehouse, will boost farmer's incomes above historical averages.

[zachateseverything]

I don't believe the first. It's a nice emotional story, true if this was 1948.

But in current life, people buy booze, buy/rent houses, apply for jobs, buy rent cars, cash checks, basically live everyday lives with photo IDs. If you really want to vote, you'd find a way to get yourself an ID. Or the political parties would drive you there, just as vans take senior voters to the polls. Or in the Boston area, Democratic volunteers drive Democrats to the polls. They call your house asking to drive you if you have not voted yet.

It's time we made IDs a national law. For everyone hyper crazy about Russia or China interfering, it's puzzling that we don't tighten out own act.

The second: copied from the Official Massachusetts website >>Acceptable identification must include your name and the address at which you are registered to vote. Examples of acceptable identification include: a driver's license, state-issued ID card, recent utility bill, rent receipt, lease, a copy of a voter registration affidavit, or any other printed identification which contains the voter's name and address.<<

In Mass it's a firing offense if a state worker asks if a person is a citizen. Fact. So they don't ask.

The great thing about facts is that you don't need to believe it for it still to be true. Someone can do almost everything on that list without ID.

The first question on the Mass voter registration form is "ARE YOU A US CITIZEN?" and if they catch someone trying to register to vote that shouldn't, they'll issue up to a $10K fine as a result.

[guido]

There goes the media claims that Trump had best week and acquittal was big win for him.

Quinnipiac poll Feb 5-9:

Bloomberg beats Trump 51-42
Sanders beats Trump 51-43
Biden beats Trump 50-43
Klobuchar beats Trump 49-43
Warren beats Trump 48-44
Buttigieg beats Trump 47-43

[JJohnson]

There goes the media claims that Trump had best week and acquittal was big win for him.

Quinnipiac poll Feb 5-9:

Bloomberg beats Trump 51-42
Sanders beats Trump 51-43
Biden beats Trump 50-43
Klobuchar beats Trump 49-43
Warren beats Trump 48-44
Buttigieg beats Trump 47-43

This feels like "anyone but Trump" list.

How anyone would prefer Bloomberg over any other the other D candidates is... crazy.

[Matthew Strongin]

The great thing about facts is that you don't need to believe it for it still to be true. Someone can do almost everything on that list without ID.

The first question on the Mass voter registration form is "ARE YOU A US CITIZEN?" and if they catch someone trying to register to vote that shouldn't, they'll issue up to a $10K fine as a result.

Mass: https://www.sec.state.ma.us/ele/elep...eg-mail-in.pdf

Florida (since that's where I live): https://www.dos.myflorida.com/media/693757/dsde39.pdf

The penalty is cheaper in Florida. Only $5K for submitting false information in the form. Here's an article in Politifact that may actually shed some light on how the falsehoods get spread: PolitiFact | Sen. Alan Hays says proof of citizenship isn&#39;t necessary to register to vote

There's a kernel of truth to the specific statement that proof of citizenship is not required to register. That statement obfuscates that it's only referring to a subset of registration scenarios (some scenarios, like while getting a driver's license, do require proof), that registration is a sworn affidavit with a felony charge for false information, that illegal immigrants are unlikely to provide their name and information to a government agency willingly, and that long time experts have just not seen any evidence of illegal immigrant voter fraud.

[jclay]

If you haven't heard, American farmers have been getting government subsidies since the 1930s.

By FDR, a Democrat.

Are you saying helping farmers is a bad thing?

And are you willing to criticize every President since FDR? Or only the current guy who wasn't even born when this all started?

There's another false equivalence. This wasn't driven by ideas remotely similar to the rationale for farm subsidies back in the day, and you well know it. Trump denied loooong established economic reality, employed his usual demagoguery to sell the idea of a trade war as "easy to win" and beneficial for farmers to his base who apparently forgot their high school history, ended up with the iron clad predictable result and now wants for the rest of us to pay for his incompetence.

And as a bonus, China, seeing us as an increasingly unreliable agricultural trading partner has ramped up agricultural trade relationships with other nations so our crop exporters will likely never regain the market shares of old.

Making America Great Again, one fuck up after another.

[bcm119]

The source of a lot of the paranoia about "illegals" voting was an incident in pennsylvania where DMV employees mistakenly registered non-citizens to vote when they applied for drivers licenses. This news gained traction in right wing media and they coined the term "motor voters", referenced by Blue Jays above. The misconception is that this was a legitimate method for illegal immigrants to get registered to vote, but the reality was that it was a screw-up by the DMV and only occurred for a limited time.

A close friend of mine works with a lot of undocumented immigrants from Mexico, and every election year there is an ongoing joke about them voting. They all think it's very funny that anyone would think they'd take the risk to vote illegally. For weeks, they're all saying "do you need a ride down to the voting booth?? hahahaha".

[marley]

This feels like "anyone but Trump" list.

How anyone would prefer Bloomberg over any other the other D candidates is... crazy.

I like Mike

I am looking for any candidate other than Trump - specifically an electable one - hell I would take Bonzo the Chimp

[marley]

Making America Great Again, one fuck up after another.

I think the tag line is Team America F*ck Yeah

[thollandpe]

States want to allow illegal immigrants to get drivers licenses, which in turn would allow him/her to vote in MA. A drivers license is all you need to vote in ma, and proof of citizenship is not required.

Back it up, bud, it's still just a bill.

And even if it does pass, those licenses will be different and look different. They'll allow somebody to operate a motor vehicle but will not serve as a legal ID.

"To be clear, the driver's licenses for undocumented drivers are not the same as the ones issued to American citizens. They can't be used as an official I.D. and will be clearly marked."
Driver's Licenses For The Undocumented: Massachusetts' Best Right-Now Solution
Bill allowing undocumented immigrants to get driver's license in Mass. moves forward – Boston News, Weather, Sports | WHDH 7News

[bigbill]

I like Mike

I am looking for any candidate other than Trump - specifically an electable one - hell I would take Bonzo the Chimp

Heard an interesting proposition today. If Biden doesn't do well in Nevada and South Carolina and drops out, then in the fall we'll see a Bloomberg/Klobuchar ticket.

[Corso]

Back it up, bud, it's still just a bill.

And even if it does pass, those licenses will be different and look different. They'll allow somebody to operate a motor vehicle but will not serve as a legal ID.

We shall see. Next step will be "it would take too much money to re-tool a new ID so the Commonwealth is got forward using the current format"...
...Look, I just made something up, just like Schiff! Who said the impeachment was a waste of time?

Illegals are already not held to the same legal treatment in MA when in car accidents, so why would I expect the proposed bill when passed, to be any different?

Illegal treatment: No license, No insurance, no registration, no proof of real name "visitors" are fast tracked though court, pay animal cash fines and are on their way--with the burden of the registered MA driver to make claims with his insurance company for damages.

So undocumented visitors - people who (like-it-or-not) are currently BREAKING THE LAW - should be able to get drivers licenses in our country, but American citizens can't be required to get photo IDs...

I agree, interesting times we live in indeed.

[monadnocky]

Illegals are...

I've done some illegal things in my life. Can I be considered an illegal as well? Or am I a person who has done something illegal?

[Corso]

I've done some illegal things in my life. Can I be considered an illegal as well? Or am I a person who has done something illegal?

Sounds like your crimes were undocumented.

[monadnocky]

Sounds like your crimes were undocumented.

for the love of God, let's hope they were

[Blue Jays]

"...people who (like-it-or-not) are currently BREAKING THE LAW - should be able to get drivers licenses in our country, but American citizens can't be required to get photo IDs..."

Meanwhile law-abiding, honest, and longtime valid citizens must provide endless proof-of-identity for common activities.
If there was info that illegal immigrants were supporters of President Trump, the border would be hardened overnight.

Were someone from the United States to attempt to sneak into another nation, we would rightly expect them to be apprehended.
Unsure why the notion of national sovereignty is so demonized by many forum participants.

[BBB]

Meanwhile law-abiding, honest, and longtime valid citizens must provide endless proof-of-identity for common activities.
If there was info that illegal immigrants were supporters of President Trump, the border would be hardened overnight.

Were someone from the United States to attempt to sneak into another nation, we would rightly expect them to be apprehended.
Unsure why the notion of national sovereignty is so demonized by many forum participants.

I don't think national sovereignty is demonised. Rather, immigration is a difficult thing for countries to deal with given the movement of people all over the globe for reasons that we, sitting comfortably here in the west, struggle to comprehend.

Still seeing you raised sneaking into another nation, are you advocating that Trump should hand over those solidiers who violated Pakistani sovereignty in order to capture/kill bin Laden?

[JJohnson]

Heard an interesting proposition today. If Biden doesn't do well in Nevada and South Carolina and drops out, then in the fall we'll see a Bloomberg/Klobuchar ticket.

Oh, wow, I just vomited. That's a great way to get POC to stay home...

[Corso]

Matt Z

Where did your response go? I started a new thread to discuss the folks who are running against Trump. With your passion for big issues, I'd like to hear who you are leaning towards and why?

And if it's simply "anyone but Trump", you know I can relate to the "anyone" answer.

[mzilliox]

my response got deleted, because im tired, and have nothing useful to say.

and of course my answer is anyone but Trump, but not because of conspiracy theories, or tribal needs, or sexual orientation, or any of those reasons, but based on his actual actions, his complete inability to show any sort of remorse or sense of impropriety, his petty bully schoolyard demeanor, his inability to form sentences or finish thoughts, his need to belittle anyone and anything that he doesnt understand or agree with, his hatred of sharks, his treatment toward women, his treatment toward everyone else, his stealing from charity, his willingness to repeat the same lies over and over, even when they are known lies, his complete lack of understanding of what normal life is like, his inability to think of others and insistence on being the victim or hero in every situation, his inability to profit from a casino, his stealing from people in the form of trump University, his willingness to help his criminal friends and punish his non criminal, citizen serving enemies, the ukraine thing, and many other things im currently not mentioning. i think its pretty obvious why people dont wish to see another trump term.

Because i know anyone running against him will have a better shot at helping out what little chance the environment has, and will do a better job of allocating taxes toward services that americans might be able to benefit from. All of the candidates have more experience serving Americans than Trump, which is something very valuable in a leader. And im reasonably confident none of them will be guilty of half the abnormally wrong and inappropriate, perhaps illegal things currently being done. I do have preferences. Perhaps I will share them in that thread when i feel like it and if the thread warrants response.