It’s telling that there’s no Impeachment thread on VS...

[HorsCat]

So it's your politics and all that, but right now the first world problem i don't understand is this:

He's said he did things that are currently against the law.

I can see how you might want to get all excited arguing about whether that should be against the law. But how can you argue he didn't break the law as it stands? He has said he did the things that are currently against the law...

its the same thing none of us understand, but it has something to do with gladly giving up power to a fraud and lacking spines and decency needed to serve.

and some americans, as evidenced here, are just fine with it all, they actually find it cute, entertaining, right? its twilight zone stuff. couple here could give you better insight into how that thought process you cite works.

America today is effectively an oligarchy and the modern Republican Party exists solely to serve its monied overlords. Because of this, Republican politicians seek only to obtain and retain power. Nothing matters to them other than the agglomeration of power in furtherance of these ends. Nothing. If you can wrap your head around that, the unfathomable is at least explainable.

[mzilliox]

So it's your politics and all that, but right now the first world problem i don't understand is this:

He's said he did things that are currently against the law.

I can see how you might want to get all excited arguing about whether that should be against the law. But how can you argue he didn't break the law as it stands? He has said he did the things that are currently against the law...

I think this guy has something to say about your comments:

[mzilliox]

Donald Trump's impeachment – cartoon | Opinion | The Guardian

[jclay]

Just listened to Judy Woodruff's interview of FL Senator Rick Scott. What a disgusting liar, demagogue and hypocrite, who, if you guys don't remember, was CEO of a company that defrauded the federal govt; he should be in prison. I emailed Judy thusly: Ask how they'd vote if this were about Obama or either Clinton? Ask what sort of evidence they'd require in order to vote for removal....a voice recording?? You think it's reasonable that someone would be able to, or have the stones to, surreptitiously record that sort of conversation with the President, in the WH???? Jesus. I am livid.

[gregl]

America today is effectively an oligarchy and the modern Republican Party exists solely to serve its monied overlords. Because of this, Republican politicians seek only to obtain and retain power. Nothing matters to them other than the agglomeration of power in furtherance of these ends. Nothing. If you can wrap your head around that, the unfathomable is at least explainable.

In my mind, it's even worse than that. The modern Republican party has lied to and co-opted a segment of the electorate (primarily blue-collar white males, and those who identify with them) to solidify their power base. The people who will be most hurt in the long run by short-sighted economic, energy, health, and environmental policies are the ones voting for those who promulgate the policies. It's truly mind-boggling. And I'm saying this as a middle-aged, white male who has identified as a Republican since childhood. Of course, I identified as a Lincoln/Teddy Roosevelt/Eisenhower Republican...

Greg

[theflashunc]

In my mind, it's even worse than that. The modern Republican party has lied to and co-opted a segment of the electorate (primarily blue-collar white males, and those who identify with them) to solidify their power base. The people who will be most hurt in the long run by short-sighted economic, energy, health, and environmental policies are the ones voting for those who promulgate the policies. It's truly mind-boggling. And I'm saying this as a middle-aged, white male who has identified as a Republican since childhood. Of course, I identified as a Lincoln/Teddy Roosevelt/Eisenhower Republican...

Greg

That party is long dead. This really is the core of the GOP/Trump base these days.

Johnstown Never Believed Trump Would Help. They Still Love Him Anyway. - POLITICO Magazine

[guido]

Adam Schiff lays out a damning case in impeachment trial opening remarks - Vox

[bironi]

What I find most interesting about the Democrats 24hrs of laying out their case is the repetition.
I understand why it is driving the senators crazy.
It is hard to listen to the same thing over and over for days.
Some of the managers are very organised and precise in their presentations,
others not at all.
All this can be frustrating, but I think the reason for the repetition is not directed at the senators.
The repetition is for the American populace.
For those living their daily lives.
Those typical lives do not include hours of free time to view the unfolding events leading up to the impeachment.
This is a way to allow for the public to turn on the coverage at their choice of time and still get the essentials.

It's a good tactic.

[theflashunc]

Of course there are tapes.

'''Take her out''': Recording appears to capture Trump at private dinner saying he wants Ukraine ambassador fired - ABC News

[gregl]

Of course there are tapes.

'''Take her out''': Recording appears to capture Trump at private dinner saying he wants Ukraine ambassador fired - ABC News

Sadly, in the bizzaro parallel universe that is the US Government, the senators will dismiss the tapes as "fake news" and vote to acquit.

Greg

[mzilliox]

"fired" seems to give him the benefit of the doubt. He can fire her without any thugs right? Just like he can investigate Biden through proper channels if he thinks there is something to be investigated, he can replace an Ambassador, right? so why on earth is anyone else besides himself and the proper government channels involved in "Take her out"? dude, just do it properly, listen to the adults, use the tools in front of you that you are ignorant of, and stop playing at gangster, unless of course, gangster.

[theflashunc]

"fired" seems to give him the benefit of the doubt. He can fire her without any thugs right? Just like he can investigate Biden through proper channels if he thinks there is something to be investigated, he can replace an Ambassador, right? so why on earth is anyone else besides himself and the proper government channels involved in "Take her out"? dude, just do it properly, listen to the adults, use the tools in front of you that you are ignorant of, and stop playing at gangster, unless of course, gangster.

It's why this is Stupid Watergate. This is JV-level racketeering. He could fire her solely at his discretion. But because like all bullies he's fundamentally a coward, he doesn't do it himself and sends his moron bagmen to do something outside official channels.

I can at least respect someone doing some crimes in a smart way. But this....Nixon must be spinning in his grave.

[Blue Jays]

Oh, noes! Shocking! Stop the presses!
There is potentially audiotape of the POTUS directing that an ineffective government worker be terminated from a job?
President Trump does not need to do it personally. Same with President Obama, President Bush, and President Clinton prior.

[theflashunc]

Oh, noes! Shocking! Stop the presses!
There is potentially audiotape of the POTUS directing that an ineffective government worker be terminated from a job?
President Trump does not need to do it personally. Same with President Obama, President Bush, and President Clinton prior.

He's not telling the Secretary of State at a Cabinet meeting. He's telling his local bagmen. At a dinner. That's a huge difference. And this ambassador is then possibly surveilled and leaves Ukraine under a potential security threat to her own safety. This is so far outside the bounds of what could have easily done within his power -- just say you're terminated and be done with it.

But the tape bolsters both Parnas' claims and Yovanovitch's claims of a smear campaign. The smear campaign is on the tape, because Parnas is the one in the President's ear.

[guido]

Trump Defense Team Scrambling to Find Example of Law Trump Did Not Break | The New Yorker

[AngryScientist]

Trump Defense Team Scrambling to Find Example of Law Trump Did Not Break | The New Yorker

if this whole debacle wasn't so tragic, this would be funny

“O.J. was easier than this,” he was overheard muttering.

[thollandpe]

Oh, noes! Shocking! Stop the presses!
There is potentially audiotape of the POTUS directing that an ineffective government worker be terminated from a job?

Ineffective? Hardly. Non-compliant, maybe. She could not be relied on to fall in line and support the bullshit investigation announcement request.

And all it took was a whisper campaign, to plant the story that she was critical of this thin-skinned “strong” leader, and refused to hang his picture in the embassy. Given his superlative insecurity, and his demonstrated inability to handle criticism or insubordination from a woman, that was a sure stratagem to ensure her ouster. He is so pathetically easy to manipulate.

Weakling. Puppet. Abuser.

[Sbti]

Dotard: “No Americans were harmed in last night’s attack by the Iranian regime,” Cheeto said. “We suffered no casualties."

Pentagon:34 U.S. service members were diagnosed with traumatic brain injuries stemming from an Iranian missile strike on U.S. troops in Iraq, nearly tripling the number initially reported as injured.

Dr. Dotard: “I heard that they had headaches and a couple of other things,” he said. “But I would say, and I can report, it is not very serious, not very serious.”

Those malingerers. Geez it's not like they have bone spurs or anything.

[jclay]

Dotard: “No Americans were harmed in last night’s attack by the Iranian regime,” Cheeto said. “We suffered no casualties."

Pentagon:34 U.S. service members were diagnosed with traumatic brain injuries stemming from an Iranian missile strike on U.S. troops in Iraq, nearly tripling the number initially reported as injured.

Dr. Dotard: “I heard that they had headaches and a couple of other things,” he said. “But I would say, and I can report, it is not very serious, not very serious.”

Those malingerers. Geez it's not like they have bone spurs or anything.

And yet people will vote for him. THAT, is what's frightening; not simply this president, who is doing damage but will pass like bad gas, but the people who will not reject him and his policies of derisiveness. This president is buried under an effing mountain of evidence of serious wrongdoing and a large portion of our electorate will still support him. And then they won't vote for folks who have long been trying to address the issues that, for the most part, we agree on. Astonishing.

My own Representative Neal Dunn, R, N Florida: It's been obvious for a while that he will sell his soul to the devil for anybody who wants to prohibit abortion. Total prohibition being his goal. Trump could rip this country to shreds but as long as he wants to prohibit abortion, Dunn's on board.

[Dallas Tex]

....service members were diagnosed with traumatic brain injuries.

Traumatic Brain Injuries? Do you mean a concussion? Like kids get playing little league sports? I believe that half of the servicemen have already returned to active duty.

You’re trying too hard......