It’s telling that there’s no Impeachment thread on VS...

[Dallas Tex]

I will try. Social media and most of all, whatsup, works to relativize fact checking. Spread fake news while at the same time accuse professional media of being a tool of a secret cabal of olygarchs who dominate capitalism. Sounds familiar? It has been used since the dawn of the 19th century. Confuse the public mixing economics, lack of jobs, immigration and gender politics. Create a paranoid logic where hollywood stars, millionaire investor Soros and gender activists are all tools of anti america cabal. Post on FB along w/ fake news. Say all media is bought, corrupt aso "they" will never let the people know the real truth. Then comes along someone who is not "part of the establishment".. he is a guy who "tells it like it is". He is not afraid of being politically incorrect meaning he is openly, agressively misoginist, sexist and anti science..,because science means college and college means corrupt, cosmopolitan, decadent. Throw some money because money is good. It´s an old moralist and decrepit tale.. but surprisingly it worked on the most powerfull well informed and democratic nation on the planet.

I suppose at the opposite end of that tale, is the 'let government take care of you tale'. The world has witnessed many disastrous results. Or are you saying that disinformation only works to the right and not to the left?

[Saab2000]

I'm a light social media user. I've never seen a news story on FB or Instagram. People actually get information used in voting decisions from Facebook? Would someone pull up an example of a 'foreign based disinformation' social media news story and link it here?

Emphasis mine.

You are serious? You are not aware of the outside attempts to influence voters via social media? Remember Robert Mueller? Actual indictments came out of that 'witch hunt'.

FB was full of this stuff leading up to the 2016 elections and is one of the main reasons I quit FB. They don't seem to care.

Here's some light reading.

Exposing Russia’s Effort to Sow Discord Online: The Internet Research Agency and Advertisements | Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence

[mzilliox]

The same folks panicking about a few Facebook posts originating from overseas are simultaneously fine with granting drivers licenses and voting rights to illegal immigrants storming our borders.

oh god no, drivers liscences for other human beings who live on this side of an imaginary line? how dare they presume to be human, or equal to US and want to drive cars. to think i was complaining about a guy who lies and cheats to our faces and puts our nature in danger while immigrants want to drive legally.

your priorities are interesting, but good on ya, immmigrants driving had me scared shitless

they dont vote but pay taxes... win win eh?

[colker]

I suppose at the opposite end of that tale, is the 'let government take care of you tale'. The world has witnessed many disastrous results. Or are you saying that disinformation only works to the right and not to the left?

Information comes from journalism. Even government info is checked by professional journalism. If you can´t trust journalists why would you trust any info at all?

[colker]

I suppose at the opposite end of that tale, is the 'let government take care of you tale'. The world has witnessed many disastrous results. Or are you saying that disinformation only works to the right and not to the left?

The left treats social conflict as a money people x working people. I doubt these days we are still looking at a classic left x right conflict anymore. I see it as a established economy x those left behind/ emerging outcasts. Religious fundamentalists, anti science, old economy, paramilitary... there are many groups which are either threatened to disappear or threatening to brake into a rational, tech environment which despises them. I don´t see much of left x right here. These groups see them selves as not represented by press neutrality. Guys like Bannon and Fox saw in these circumstances an opportunity for their "news" outlets which publish outrageous versions of current affairs. When you double check their facts something is off. If the story is too absurd to even publish it becomes rumor and hear say on social media.

[Dallas Tex]

Information comes from journalism. Even government info is checked by professional journalism. If you can´t trust journalists why would you trust any info at all?

I don't know what the journalistic environment is like in Brazil, but here in the states journalism died the day advertising revenue became based on how many 'clicks' an article got. I'm not happy about this. Even the once beyond reproach NYT has succumb and evolved into something different. It is a shame. Years ago my Sunday mornings used to consist of nothing but reading the big papers.

[colker]

I don't know what the journalistic environment is like in Brazil, but here in the states journalism died the day advertising revenue became based on how many 'clicks' an article got. I'm not happy about this. Even the once beyond reproach NYT has succumb and evolved into something different. It is a shame. Years ago my Sunday mornings used to consist of nothing but reading the big papers.

That´s not how any serious newspaper works. Advertizing may impose they cover some idiocy for entertainement or consummerism but politics, war, economy are all independent from advertizing pressure. Or government pressure. Newspapers have bias and american papers are open about their bias... but they don´t print lies. They don´t ommit truth. If they are found lying about something serious they close shop real quick. You may disagree entirely w/ any paper political bias.. but their facts are checked. Social media otoh could not care less. Politics are now decided on social media campaigns. That´s danger will robinson. Real danger.

[mzilliox]

I don't know what the journalistic environment is like in Brazil, but here in the states journalism died the day advertising revenue became based on how many 'clicks' an article got. I'm not happy about this. Even the once beyond reproach NYT has succumb and evolved into something different. It is a shame. Years ago my Sunday mornings used to consist of nothing but reading the big papers.

Your views on your fellow Americans and their ability to conduct themselves in a matter that is decent is a sad and tragic tale, im sorry your opinion of your fellow citizens is so low. I know a couple journalists i call friends and neither of them are liars like the President. Neither have purposely ever offer misinformation, and neither would ever repeat a lie if they could possibly avoid it. Can you say the same for your president? You could say it, but then you would be lying too right?

Then back off of journalists, because you dont actually know what you are saying here. We arent talking about amatuers who write about katie jenner, or aliens, or the lady who gave birth to an alligator in westville nebraska. there are still very serious humans doing very serious work for very serious reasons, to discount your fellow Americans in such a way is a diservice to us all.

[defspace]

I'm a light social media user. I've never seen a news story on FB or Instagram. People actually get information used in voting decisions from Facebook? Would someone pull up an example of a 'foreign based disinformation' social media news story and link it here?

Social Media Advertisements | Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence

example.JPG

[Blue Jays]

"...Years ago my Sunday mornings used to consist of nothing but reading the big papers..."

That indeed used to be wonderful years ago. Sundays for me was long group ride, breakfast, and then hours reading all the big papers.
Eventually papers like The New York Times allowed their editorial page sentiment to essentially be transferred to ALL of their sections.

[colker]

A bit of a funny story to lighten up the thread. A story of climate/ environmental change. The other day i was working in front of the computer. It was all quiet. I took off the eyes from the screen fro a moment and 3ft to my left there is a monkey looking at me in my living room. He wasn´t small. I jumped by instinct and went into the bedroom. Breathed for a moment and came back. There was nothing. I live on the eighth floor in the old downtown district near the financial center. It´s no place for a monkey just like the village in NYC is no place for a bear. So i call the building janitor.. "saw a monkey here". He comes up, we look around and he politely says i am seeing things.
Two days later i notice a foot print actually a handprint by the window: monkeys have similar hands to us. Next the janitor tells me there is actually a monkey visiting apartments. two monkeys says the building administrator. They steal a honey pot, a melon and pee in my room and the worse happened: a small dog fell off the 6th floor while chasing them.
I would never imagine i would see monkeys in this part of town let alone having to install fences to protect food from monkeys in downtown rio de janeiro.

[Dallas Tex]

Your views on your fellow Americans and their ability to conduct themselves in a matter that is decent is a sad and tragic tale, im sorry your opinion of your fellow citizens is so low..

Kinda funny coming from someone thats afraid that his fellow Americans might elect a president based on 'likes' on Facebook posted by foreign trolls.

[mzilliox]

I hear you Glenn, there is a massive difference between being a willful spreader of disinformation and being the target/victim of the disinformation, one requires will, the other requires simply existing as a human in this world. your false equivalencies are adorable, but easily seen through. and for the record, this was not my arguement, i only provided the information you asked for in regards to the relationships between disinformation, facebook, and votes. not to mention the fact that you fail to address my point as to donald trump seems incapable of not spreading disinformation, how come you hold him to a different standard? this good cop bad cop thing is funny. "im really interested in your guys information, no i really do want to know more. but when you kindly share the information i asked for, im gonna use that to jab for the next point." classy

[theflashunc]

I'm a light social media user. I've never seen a news story on FB or Instagram. People actually get information used in voting decisions from Facebook? Would someone pull up an example of a 'foreign based disinformation' social media news story and link it here?

Okay, let's play this for the sake of argument. Here's one example in the image below. This was a Russian controlled social media account followed by voters, which spread lies and half truths to people who thought they were getting information straight from the Tennessee GOP:



The pro Trump Russian intelligence campaign posted social media ads that became real life events the Trump campaign acknowledged and supported through social media. These ads were particularly devastating spreading disinformation given the surgical precision with which you can target ads on Facebook and other social platforms.



Or ads like this which are not true to buttress the horseshit claims from Trump about the wall building:



All of this propaganda, disinformation and influence peddling (this doesn't even touch the open courting of Guccifer, which turned out to be Russian cyber intelligence services openly hacking Democratic party and Clinton campaign systems) turned public perception. Maybe it didn't change your mind, but there's plenty of diehard Trump supporters who bought all this hook, line and sinker. And the President is actively telling anyone to ignore anything that says otherwise, which is insanely dangerous heading into 2020.

Here's some reading if the full report is too much for you: Here’s A Detailed Look At How Russian Trolls Used Social Media To Meddle In The 216 Election, According To The Mueller Report

[Colinmclelland]

snip...to get themselves elected the leader of the free world...

There was a time when the US president might have been the leader of the free world but that was back when they were, you know, leading and engaging with the free world.

At the moment the US President is the US President.

[mzilliox]

with Flashes help we see the difference here. there is a group of people actively and knowlingly spreading bad and false and misleading and dangerous info.
i do not think these are journalists, i think journalists absolutley do their best to gets facts stright, because that is literally the game. journailist put their names on things, and are held accountable for what they report.
then there are people who are looking for information, and maybe the good ones look everywhere and find different accounts and are informed, and maybe they are so pure like you that they never go to facebook, but thats not the majority of America and we all know this. but maybe you live in TN and read what Flash posted. i am not faulting people for finding the bad info, and i do not think les of them or hold a bad opinion of them for being a victim, instead i direct my anger justly at the source, as any rational person would. i fault the people who provide misinformation, that is why your equivalence is false and poorly executed. and that is why we get angry with your disingenuous arguments, because they detract from anything useful. but maybe tats the point.

[Dallas Tex]

There was a time when the US president might have been the leader of the free world but that was back when they were, you know, leading and engaging with the free world.

At the moment the US President is the US President.

Nope. Trump is driving the bus.

[jclay]

You guys might as well be screaming at the wind, or at a mountain. Anybody who posts in support of Trump at this point will never, ever change their minds. That's not really news but as of not too many days ago I inculcated it; I decided to universally cease engaging Trump supporters because it is utterly pointless, and it feels great!

Better to do something productive, like volunteering to help register voters (particularly in Georgia) or work for a progressive candidate, or write a letter to the editor, or post something that makes sense, but don't waste time and energy engaging those who still support Trump. After all, it's the silent folks who don't respond to threads like this one who may be receptive to reason and the information that's available. But directly engaging those who still post in support of Trump is really beyond pointless.

Cheers. I leave you all with it. I'm either gonna pop out to the shop to work on a frame I'm converting to 650b X 48 or maybe make some ravioli; after I work on this beer a little more. And if I fall off the wagon I'll scamper right back on.

[Sbti]

May 2017 Fat Nixon giving up classified info, yukking it up with Lavrov and Kislyak in the Mother Fucking White House.

2018 The Helsinki Surrender. ‘I don’t see any reason why’ Russia would have interfered with election.

And Moscow Mitch and slurp boy Leningrad Lindsey are all fine with it.

But that Sandy Hook thing was just a bunch of crisis actors.
Buh, buh, whatabout' B. Hussein Obama, tan suit, and cankles, pant suit, wiping it with a cloth.

[mzilliox]

You guys might as well be screaming at the wind, or at a mountain. Anybody who posts in support of Trump at this point will never, ever change their minds. That's not really news but as of not too many days ago I inculcated it; I decided to universally cease engaging Trump supporters because it is utterly pointless, and it feels great!

Better to do something productive, like volunteering to help register voters (particularly in Georgia) or work for a progressive candidate, or write a letter to the editor, or post something that makes sense, but don't waste time and energy engaging those who still support Trump. After all, it's the silent folks who don't respond to threads like this one who may be receptive to reason and the information that's available. But directly engaging those who still post in support of Trump is really beyond pointless.

Cheers. I leave you all with it. I'm either gonna pop out to the shop to work on a frame I'm converting to 650b X 48 or maybe make some ravioli; after I work on this beer a little more. And if I fall off the wagon I'll scamper right back on.

Thanks John
Im also in the middle of making some pasta, probably spaghetti today as we had a lovely butternut ravioli the other night.
You are right, time is better spent elsewhere, and elsewhere is where i do most of my work fighting for clean water and public lands.
Its true that if trumps outright lies and deciet cannot shake a voter by now, it never will, they have made their play and now stand firm next to a know cheater and liar an seem content enough i suppose.
enjoy that beer, maybe ill go dig one out myself, its been a few days since i had a beer since ive been sick.