A Father-Daughter Build Thread

[cblandford]

I am about to start on a new project, and thought I would try something a little different. I hope this thread proves enjoyable for you and informative for me.

To date, I’ve built five or six keeper-bicycles. Three or six garbage-bicycles. The numbers depend on who’s counting. In any case, I feel like I’m at a point in my hobby-ism where I’ve established a beginner’s routine. The last couple bikes I built went (oddly) according to plan, which was not the case for the first four-or-eight that I built. At the least, I’m no longer (grossly) intimidated by the idea of building a simple bicycle. Learning-curve progress, I think.













And so, I figured it was time for a little reflection; I think I need to really check-in on my budding processes.

I’m going to document a project here in this thread. Start to finish. With photos and explanations. To this point I’ve taken photos and made notes as I’ve gone along, but not in a real, comprehensive way. I think it’ll be interesting to get it all down in one spot, here. To the pros and more experienced hobbyists: I’d love your thoughts and feedback as I go along if you’re willing to share them. To those (like myself, previously) who are just trying to figure out how to slap a frame together: please note that is not meant to be any sort of hack’s how-to. I’m doing this to open myself up to criticism in an effort to improve upon an activity that I’m finding I truly enjoy. I don’t know anything. Take this for what it’s worth, which is very little.











So here we go.

The project, briefly: I’m going to build a pair of kinda-matching bicycles, for my daughter and myself. Mathilda turns four in February and is ready for her first pedal bike. Her only request is that her new bike be “pink... like a giraffe”. I like the sounds of a pink-life-a-giraffe bike, too, so I thought I’d build both of us new rides. I’m looking forward to cruising alongside her, each atop our own single-speed giraffe. As I type this I’ve little idea what these bikes are going to look like outside of a few key details. So--come along--we’ll find out together.







If nothing else, enjoy the show-and-tell. I owe this forum more enjoyment than I can repay, but perhaps this will relieve some of my debt.

Back with more soon.

-Chris



PS. I’ve started this thread in The Path because I think it’ll be more fun if I open up the heckling to everyone. That said, if--as I go along--certain things warrant their own Mentor thread, I may start new ones over there, too. We’ll see how it goes. I personally know which voices carry what weight in this place, but I’ll try and make things useful for those reading this ten years out.

[cblandford]

Before I dive in, a couple notes:

I took the UBI framebuilding course in the summer of 2015, and then again--because I’m a terrible student--in the spring of 2017. Tony Pereira (of Breadwinner) and Dan Harrison (now of Vanilla) were the instructors the first time around. Ron Sutphin and Rich Bernouli taught the second course. So hey, if I show something here that indicates bad habits, blame the four of them! Ha. (Anything of apparent quality, though, is completely my doing. Obviously.)

I currently build my bicycles in a small studio that sits above our home's detached garage. I also actual-work from that same space, and try to steal an hour or two each afternoon for the bicycle stuff. At the very least I’m down in my “shop” most evenings, after the dog has been fed and Mathilda is asleep. Sports talk radio during the day, music at night. Picture painted, I hope.

My space is mostly machine-less. I own a drill press, belt sander, and a cordless drill. That’s about it. For fixtures, I have an Anvil frame jig and an Anvil fork jig. A Sputnik braze-on kit. Some other little things. Various bending... devices. We’ll get to all of that stuff, I’m sure.







Finally, I have no supervised fabrication/metalworking experience (outside of my time at UBI), nor do I have any real bicycle experience. (I’ve certainly never worked in a bike shop. Or raced. Or even ridden with a group, actually.) A perfect recipe for bicycle-making success, yes? I’m just a lifelong commuter/get-arounder/tinkerer/self-maintenance-er. Feel free to judge accordingly. Given my experience and intentions, I’m quite unoffendable in this realm.

Anyway, that's the context. I thought it was important.

Phew. Now then...



Here’s what we’re building.

A FATHER/DAUGHTER PAIR OF BICYCLES

For the Father (me, 34 years young):
700c x 35mm-ish Singlespeed Cruiser

For the Daughter (Mathilda, 3 years old):
16” x 1.75” Singlespeed Pedal Bike

Both bikes will feature fillet-brazed frames and (most likely) lugged forks. My bike might also get a fillet-brazed stem. Mathilda’s bike will likely not. Both bikes will get hand-operated V-brakes--number and locations to be determined.







My tentative plan is to build both bikes as quasi-mixtes, with curvy twin top-tubes that extend from the headtube to the rear dropouts (Retrotec inspired/shamelessly ripped off). This might change if I’m unable to execute them on the Daughter Bike for whatever reason. Clearances and such. We’ll find out. I’ve built one mixte previously, but it sucked... hard. It now hangs on my wall, unfinished, and mocks me daily. So this should be fun.







Neither bike will have fenders. No racks. Minimal braze-ons. Pretty simple, compared to my last couple projects. I may try my hand at internal-routing the rear brake cable on the Daughter Bike. I’m indifferent to internal cable routing in general, but in this case, it might be nice to keep the potential-flesh-wounders (braze-ons) to a minimum. A kid’s bike sounds challenging enough already, though, so we’ll see.

My goal is to have both bicycles ready for paint before the holidays. Fingers crossed. That should give Black Magic Paint enough time to get them painted by mid-February--Mathilda’s fourth birthday is on the 16th.

That’s the plan.



My first action when starting on a bicycle is to brainstorm a bit and visualize the bike as a whole. Do a little photo research. Make mental notes. So that’s what I did, for these bikes, last night. Ironically, this is the same way I begin a new professional project, too. I find photos of better work than I’m capable of, print them, and hang them on the wall. A target at which to aim, I suppose.







Tonight I’ll put together an actual design and a list of needed materials. I'm excited to get started and find out what I'm completely overlooking, this time.

Back tomorrow-ish.

-Chris

[Bill Bryant]

Looks like a fun project, Chris. I'm a former elementary school teacher and have done quite a lot of cycling with young kids of various ages. Have you seen your daughter on a bike yet with handbrakes? My experience is that the kids around 5-6 tend not to do so well with them and often prefer bikes with coaster brakes. Hand braking involves multi-tasking (balancing, judging traffic conditions and safety, and pulling on the brake levers to various amounts of hand strength.) As they get older, around age 7-8 they get better judging how much brake to use, and by age 10 they are proficient. My suggestion is that when you first put her on the new bike, try to do some braking drills in a safe area with no distractions. With some practice braking while pedaling or coasting, she'll get it-- but don't assume she has it already. Safety first!
Have fun on your rides!

[claritycycler]

Very cool project, I'm really looking forward to following as it progresses.

regards, Brian

[Mark Walberg]

Cool. My advice is to include your daughter in every step of the build. The entire thing.
It will be good for her, and it will be good for you.
Cool.

[cblandford]

...Have you seen your daughter on a bike yet with handbrakes? My experience is that the kids around 5-6 tend not to do so well with them and often prefer bikes with coaster brakes...

Bill - Yah, I've been snooping around the local shops for a couple of weeks, eyeing details like this. I really thought I'd see more 12 & 16" pedal bikes with coaster brakes. I've been surprised that many (most?) these days feature little Tektro mini V's instead. I have distinct memories of being 4/5 years old and skidding my coaster-braked bike down my old driveway. Doesn't everyone?

Anyway, I figure I'll design the frame to accept the little V brakes. I can always default to a coaster hub if the hand brake gives Mathilda trouble. She's tearing around on her brakeless balance bike pretty good these days. My plan is to let her get used to this new bike as merely a "big" balance bike--with brakes--first, then add the drivetrain bits and teach her to pedal. One piece at a time, as your comments suggest. Thanks for the input. We'll see how it goes.

Very cool project, I'm really looking forward to following as it progresses.

regards, Brian

Sweet - thanks!

...My advice is to include your daughter in every step of the build. The entire thing.
It will be good for her, and it will be good for you...

I've been going back and forth--whether to include her or make it a surprise. I think you're right, though; we'll both be better for it (in many ways) if she can "help" along the way. The final product can be a surprise... The building of the thing shouldn't be. Thanks for mentioning that.


-Chris

[rwsaunders]

Great story and photos and I’m looking forward to following.

[claritycycler]

"...My advice is to include your daughter in every step of the build. The entire thing.
It will be good for her, and it will be good for you..."

I strongly second this method! Lots of kids remember most of their bikes for a lifetime(I do), but making one with dad? Never to be forgotten(for both of you).

[cblandford]

Time to play connect the dots.

To this point, I’ve been designing my bicycles based--largely--on the published geometry charts of brands and builders that I respect. I don’t have the riding experience to have justifiable opinions about much of anything. So, I build to match models that look interesting to me, adjusting here-or-there for fit and whatnot.

Given that a kid's bike has all sorts of odd things going on (and given that nobody publishes dimensions for these little bikes) I decided that--for the Daughter Bike--I’d just go ahead and pick up a stock model to have on hand. (Sorry if that’s cheating.) On Wednesday I purchased a 16” Cleary Hedgehog from Clever Cycles here in Portland. This would’ve been the model I’d bought if I wasn’t planning to build Mathilda a bike. Yesterday I stripped the frame (see Nerdnote A) and took measurements, plugging them into BikeCAD as I went along.







This is how I usually “design” a bike. I find something to reference, and then enter those dimensions into BikeCAD. Then I iterate/adjust quickly in the computer and, once satisfied, I translate the design into a final full-scale drawing. This is probably (at least) double the necessary work, but I like idiot-checking myself on paper at this stage. And I enjoy the drafting.

Here’s where Mathilda’s bike ended up:







This design matches the Cleary, except in two ways. First, I’m allowing for a lower minimum saddle height and more standover than the Cleary. Mathilda has short little legs for her age. Second, I increased the fork length about 10mm compared to the Cleary (see Nerdnote B).

Once satisfied, I drafted up the frame and fork, full-scale. As I do this I start pulling parts, too. I tend to over-order when I buy frame bits. As such, I have a small-but-ever-growing collection of dropouts and fork crowns lying around. Helpful here. I'll likely order a few additional pieces this time around, too.

Having completed The Daughter bike drawing, I moved on to The Father bike drawing.









Little to see here, I think. When I was in college, I lusted after another student’s Gunnar Streetdog. Figured I’d take the chance to make myself one, now, with a couple slight modifications. Next, I drafted the full-scale version just as before (see Nerdnote C).

Now that these are done, I have enough info to order parts. I’ll do that tonight.

-Chris





Nerdnote A:

I’m actually really impressed by the Cleary, and surprised at how much of a “real” bike it is. 68mm BB; square taper cartridge; regular 1” threadless steerer and headset; 28.6 down, top, and seat tubes; 25.4 seat post; 100mm front spacing; 110mm rear (that'll be interesting); 305 BSD (that’ll be interesting, too); little Tektro brakes; on and on. Unfortunately, though, this thing is HEAVY. Holy hell. I wish I owned a scale. I definitely don’t trust the published weight! It’s a tank. I think I can cut down on the weight significantly, both in the frame/fork and in the components. I'll give this bike away when I'm done with this project. If you'd like it, call dibs.


Nerdnote B:

I had a feeling I’d be testing the lower-limits on my Anvil jig for this project, and this indeed turned out to be the case. It was oh-so-close, though. Increasing the fork length 10mm moved the headtube bottom (the Anvil’s primary setup point) in-bounds. (I designed this bike with the jig setup dimensions displayed… shown above highlighted in orange.) That’s a slight concession, but it’s better than having to build a one-off jig for this little bike.


Nerdnote C:

Axle Line > Bottom bracket drop/rise and diameter > Seat tube angle > Effective seat tube length > Effective top tube length > Headtube angle > Fork rake > Front BSD > Front tire > Front fender > Clearance > Crown width > Lower headset stack > Headtube diameter and length > Down tube diameter > Seat tube diameter > Top tube location, angle and diameter > Rear wheel BSD > Rear tire. Chainstay length > Chain/seat stay top view (I usually do this later, though).

[Thomas Norton]

Chris, great post! I am at Doug Fattic's for my final week and Cantilever posts are scheduled for tomorrow. I like the idea of shortening the post . But the Paul Touring Cantilever come with KoolStop pads and Pau recommended I shorten the length so they don't hit the fork blades. If I shorten the post I will have to shorten the pads that much more . So we will see tomorrow!

[Andrew R Stewart]

Tom- I have done the opposite, I've lengthened the canti post base on many of my builds. To both better clear the long pads common today as well as have more base/frame overlap. Andy

[Thomas Norton]

Andy, we will see if the Paragon ones with the least amount of mitering will be long enough.

[cblandford]

...I like the idea of shortening the post . But the Paul Touring Cantilever come with KoolStop pads and Pau recommended I shorten the length so they don't hit the fork blades...

...I've lengthened the canti post base on many of my builds. To both better clear the long pads common today as well as have more base/frame overlap...

Aha! That makes sense, and seems obvious now that you pointed it out. The KoolStop "Thinline" pads are all I've used on bikes that I've made for myself. They're pretty long. Or, they're long enough that when mocking up brakes I haven't even considered trying to clear them from fork blades when open. I also rarely remove wheels from frames (unless a tire is flat), so I've never paid much attention to that issue. Thanks for the insight!

Thankfully, I'll be the sole mechanic for this bike... Nobody to curse at but myself.

-Chris

[cblandford]

Getting closer.

…
21. Cable Routing
…


Now that I have the rear brake mounted, I can determine how I want to run its cable. I begin by installing some handlebars, and cutting a piece of housing. I hold the housing up to the frame, play with it until I’m satisfied with the run, and make marks with a Sharpie. For this bike, I decided to run the cable internally, in full-length housing. It will run from the bars, around the non-drive side of the head tube, and into the underside of the drive-side top tube. It will make its tube-exit in a spot that I hope minimizes how far out the v-brake noodle will protrude.







I understand that most (proper?) internally-run cable housing runs through a brazed-in brass or stainless tube (and is done up front, before any tubes are connected together). I decided here, however, to merely braze on a little reinforcement plate and drill an angled hole for the cable. (This is similar to how I’ve internally-routed lighting wire in the past.) I’ll probably do something different on the Father bike--we’ll see.

I cut out, cleaned up, and (silver) brazed on the reinforcements. Then I drilled a hole in the tubes, and used files to enlarge and angle the holes for the housing. Once done, I test fit the cable. Upon doing so, I found that the cable bends were a little sharp entering and exiting the tube. I pulled the housing and “flattened out” (?) the holes a bit more. All good. The brake pulls pretty nicely, I think.













I thought I was just about done with this bike. While working on these bits, however, I decided that I wasn’t going to be happy with any short, off-the-shelf, 1” threadless stem (if I could find one at all). I've decided to go ahead and make a stem.

So, next up: make a stem.

-Chris

[Andrew R Stewart]

Oh I was so into this build thread till you went internal... :)

Joke over, for a kids bike not a bad way if done well. Andy.

[Colinmclelland]

This has been awesome to track. Promise me when she outgrows it you'll try to find someone else deserving! It's been such an awesome project, I'm almost looking forward to her outgrowing it so we can see part 2.

[Thomas Norton]

Colin, after fitting up the Cantilever posts it was evident that the pads will need to be cut down in length. Apparently they is a way, using a slip tube setup, to increase the height off the fork blades. But as a newbie just learning I need to simplify!
We got the chainstays on yesterday and today the seatstays! I am having a great time!

[cblandford]

Stem:

1. Miter Stem Pieces
2. Tack and Braze Stem
3. Finish Fillets
4. Braze Binders
5. Slot and Relieve Binders


I’ve only made a couple of stems like this one previously, but the process has been straightforward.

I begin by designing the stem in BikeCAD, printing the miter templates, and mitering the stem’s main tube. This tube is, essentially, a very short downtube; I miter it exactly as described previously. The other tubes (both made out of .058” tubing) are cut to length and squared up on my belt sander. I leave the tube that clamps onto the steerer long so that I can grab it while brazing. I’ll trim it to length once the binders are brazed on.







Once mitered, I drill vent holes in the clamping tubes, clean, flux, and load the tubes into a stem jig (Sputnik). I tack the stem together in the jig (obtuse angle first, as before), let cool, then pull the stem from the fixture. To braze, I clamp the stem onto a longer length of tubing.

Braze, let cool, and then soak.







Next I finish the areas of the fillets closest to where the binders will land. Then I miter and notch the binders (just like I did with the seat tube binder), clean, flux, and (bronze) braze them on. Soak once more. Finally, I drill a pucker hole in the steerer-clamping tube and slot both binders with a hacksaw and flat files. I also file a little half-round relief in the binders where they pinch together. At last I trim everything to length and finish any remaining fillets. I also shape the handlebar clamping tube a bit, to make sure that the handlebars’ curves--when installed--run through easily.













The final thing I did for this stem was run a flex-hone (chucked up in my cordless drill) through both clamping tubes. Then I installed the stem and handlebars and checked that all went according to plan. All good this time around.







(This reminds me… I’m not sure if I mentioned before: a seatpost of the correct diameter fit nicely into this bike’s frame, which I checked back when I was finishing off that binder/slot. I didn’t bother reaming the seat tube on this bike. There, too, I merely used a flex-hone to finish it off.)

Next up: final touches and off to paint!

-Chris

[Ras72]

I know paint is necessary but it's a shame to cover that beautiful work.

[cblandford]

I know paint is necessary but it's a shame to cover that beautiful work.

Necessary, and half of the fun! I don't feel like a frame is finished until it's covered with color... The raw looks don't do much for me. I appreciate the compliment, though!

-Chris