Ski Bindings

[Bobonli]

I’ve been out of the skiing game for a few years and going back down that rabbit hole now that the kids are able to ski. The gear has changed a bit since my last purchase back in ‘92!

I have dual interests: downhill at your traditional ‘resort’ with groomed trails, lifts etc and I’d like to be able to do some light touring. By touring I mean some skinning to the top of a hill and riding back down. Most of the activity will be on groomed lift served trails with my family.

For those that have experience in this area, are the alpine touring bindings where the heel can be released for skinning suitable for resort- style skiing? Or is this an N+1 problem ( meaning I’d be better off with traditional alpine bindings and skis + a cross country rig) ?

I suppose the same question applies to boots. I ask because sometimes multitasking solutions don’t to any one thing well but if I can buy one rig for both and be happy that would be a win. I’ve seen people running AT gear on resort mountains, but they could just be nuts!! Need some advice from those with real life experience.

Thanks

[sailor]

Depending on your expectations you can have one set of gear that does it all, but there will be compromises. Touring on anything other than pin-tech bindings is unpleasant at best but the only one that I would want to ski inbounds is the salomon shift. If you are looking at an 80/20 inbounds to BC ratio, I would buy beefy boots with a walk mode and dynafit inserts (Lange XT, Techina Cochise, Atomic Hawx XTD), an inbounds setup with compatible standard bindings and a cheap used BC setup with pin bindings. If you are willing to spend more money you can get dedicated setups for each. If you want to be as cheap as possible, one set of boots and skis with frame style touring bindings will work but you will suffer going uphill.

[lumpy]

You really want dedicated skis for inbounds stuff. The touring bindings don't have the same elasticity as a proper alpine binding and they don't tolerate snow buildup as well. Fussier to put on and off too.

I had a longer comment, but I think the short answer here is, just get a basic ski area setup and enjoy skiing with your kids. Rent or demo first and decide what you like. You can get quality rentals now and it will blow you away how good alpine skis are if you take the time to work out the modern technique (less driving the knee, more rolling the ankle).

I was away from alpine skis for about 12 years - I was tele skiing in leather boots on skinny skis, and the kids were little, and I was working in Boston and not skiing much. Then in 2003 I went to Jackson Hole for a funeral and rented some modern skis, wide ones with sidecut. There was no looking back after that.

Get yourself a second, focused touring setup later. Learn from my errors: I use frame bindings and wish I didn't. The pivot point is just in the wrong place. And get boots with as much range of motion in walk mode as possible.

[JoB]

For context, I grew up randonnee skiing. I would buy a pair of modern backcountry touring skis. If you keep them waxed and with sharp edges, they will work for most of what you to do (ski with kids). For the few times where that won't work, rent a pair at the resort.

Regarding pin bindings, I think it's silly to buy anything but, and the boots have become amazing. I have a pair of Dynafit boots that i can lock down like a vise. The pin bindings take some time to get used to but they're no more difficult to step into than a clipless pedal, even in deep powder. On the other hand, if you're doing crazy, rockies-style back country ripping, a) you're nuts, and b) consider that your life depends on 4 small stainless steel pyramids. I dunno. There are decent options available that aren't pins where the turning axle is moved backwards towards your toes. That style of skiing is completely different from the randonnee skiing I am used to so I can't speak to that.

In short, your backcountry enjoyment depends, in order (IMO) on 1) boots that fit, 2) decent skis with skins that stick when conditions aren't ideal (!), 3) bindings you can rely on.

Happy trails!

[lumpy]

See, I can't imagine skiing icy crappy East Coast bumps relying on that pin interface. There's no elasticity in the binding fore and aft to the best of my knowledge so if you flex the ski good and hard the boot has to come out. Also, the binding release isn't as calibrated and reliable as on an alpine binding. Obviously it can be done, I know lots of good skiers who have one rig and use tech bindings at resorts but they don't fall and they are always skiing light on their gear and "centered". If I was just getting back into alpine skiing after a long stretch away from the sport, and I might be falling or sliding sideways down something steep, I'd be a lot happier in an alpine binding.

[Toddykins]

i am pretty happy skiing in and out of bounds on my tectons (with x-lab boots). I don’t miss the alpine bindings at all even driving the skis hard. The Tectons and Shifts have some elasticity. This seems like a good case for the Shift.

Except for edge cases like hucking big cliffs, I think what tou gain touring on a pin binding vs anything else massively outweighs any difference at the resort. I also like the idea only having one set of boots.

[Toddykins]

And if you are just getting back into it for the first time since the 90s - go about three times as wide on the skis as you think you need. My NARROWEST set is now 106. I am an ex-high(ish) level racer and easily my favorite ski I have ever been on is 138mm at the waist...

[JoB]

See, I can't imagine skiing icy crappy East Coast bumps relying on that pin interface. There's no elasticity in the binding fore and aft to the best of my knowledge so if you flex the ski good and hard the boot has to come out. Also, the binding release isn't as calibrated and reliable as on an alpine binding. Obviously it can be done, I know lots of good skiers who have one rig and use tech bindings at resorts but they don't fall and they are always skiing light on their gear and "centered". If I was just getting back into alpine skiing after a long stretch away from the sport, and I might be falling or sliding sideways down something steep, I'd be a lot happier in an alpine binding.

Absolutely agree - there is a tradeoff here and the release isn't calibrated well on my Dynafit (TLTs, I think). you can set these bindings so they will not open. But being that they are designed for backcountry skiing, bumpiness and sideways chatter isn't a problem I've experienced.

[MMM]

When my daughter was starting to ski, I demo'd a few skis and found I wanted to go with a softer ski, because at the speeds I was skiing, there just wasn't much point in getting stiff skis. Just what I found; from not a great skier. Now we just hang out at the ice rink for figure skating, and don't have much time for downhill.

We had some great times on the slopes though.

[lumpy]

When my daughter was starting to ski, I demo'd a few skis and found I wanted to go with a softer ski, because at the speeds I was skiing, there just wasn't much point in getting stiff skis. Just what I found; from not a great skier. Now we just hang out at the ice rink for figure skating, and don't have much time for downhill.

We had some great times on the slopes though.

Good point that you should get skis that work for the kind of skier you are, and the conditions you're skiing in. Chairlift time was great family time for us, too.

[Bobonli]

I been reading and re-reading the responses and asking myself how often I'd "tour" versus downhill off a lift.....and then I remembered I live 3 blocks from a preserve with trails and hills! Unfortunately we've only had one storm of consequence this year on Long Island, so there's that!

Some of this driven by envy/aspirational dreaming. We got upstate twice in the past two months and both times saw people who toured up one side of the resort hill and used the trails to descend. I'm sure it's a lot harder than it looks, but I like the idea of combining a hike with a downhill run and not having to have two sets of gear.

[slwrnu]

as mentioned by Lionel the Marker Kingpins can do everything. Or, consider quiver killer inserts. These mean you can swop bindings depending on your fancy - not too difficult. You could google The Piste Office in the UK for info. Very knowledgeable. Also they have skis from last year on sale. Not sure if he (Jon) ships to the US but you might save tax. Ski kit in the UK and Europe is cheaper than in the US, although almost everything else seems the other way round. If you are not going to ski a lot one set of skis which will involve a slight compromise both up and down is the way to go. If you are going to tour and ski hard a lot I think you still need, or at least would enjoy, 2 lots of kit. Boots are so good these days one decent pair will suffice, you can do everything in them.

[big boom]

Actually you can get this all in one binding now. Get the Salomon/Atomic Shift bindings, have run them all season so far and they've been excellent. Great touring mode along with all the elasticity of a DIN binding and if you're going to complain about only 13 DIN well there's quite a few pros who would say otherwise. The only negative with them is the heel risers only have a single 10* rise so depending on the skin tracks in your area this may be optimal or not.

3 reasons to choose Salomon SLAB SHIFT Bindings

[72gmc]

Have Marker and Salomon been suggested? Yes? Good. Now, where’s the snow?

[climbgdh]

I’ve ski toured extensively for the last 20 years and I’d highly recommend nothing but pin bindings. Anyone that says they can’t be skied hard is full of it. For the skiing you’re describing I’d recommend the Salomon Shift bindings or Marker Kingpin’s. I’ve never skied either of these since I have dedicated hill skis and several pairs of dedicated touring skis but I have heard fantastic reviews on the Salomon Shifts. Boots with the tech fittings nowadays are awesome. Right up to a 130 flex. Can’t wait for ski season to start!!!

[Paul Jacobs]

This is interesting for me because I used to ski and ski tour several times a year for many decades but I stopped over 10 years ago and, reading this thread, touring bindings and boots have clearly moved on. In the 1990's and early 2000's I used the same skis and boots for piste skiing with friends and family as well as touring, that was Scarpa Denali touring boots and Fritschi Diamir bindings. I was more than happy with these for all piste skiing in Europe and I remember my gear exciting some interest in the lift queues at Squaw Valley in the 1990s. I also toured extensively including skiing from Argentière to Zermatt, the classic Haute Route over the Plateau du Couloir, in three days with the same kit (plus skins obviously).

I see the Fritschi Diamir binding is still available and the Marker F12 Tour EPF Bindings look to be something similar. I guess boots have improved too but 20 years ago it was much more comfortable walking to the lifts and around the resorts in Scarpa Denalis than in the usual downhill boots of that time.

I wish those of you who do still ski the very best of coming conditions and experiences.

[72gmc]

If you follow The Fifty video series (highly recommended) you can see Cody Townsend ski some serious terrain on Shifts.

[slwrnu]

i have skied toured for quite a long time on the same dynafit pin bindings, scarpa touring boots, relatively skinny and short (light) skis because I like the sensation of skinning up with minimum effort and then skiing in the snow rather than on it. If there is fresh snow on the piste and it has been groomed it is fine to ski this set up as long as you are quiet with the edges. You can front side those skis if you are not careful.

[climbgdh]

Bring it!!!

[vertical_doug]