Powder and Paint

[EnginCycles]

Been a wet paint person my entire time i have had any interest in bicycles. Powder coated bikes always looked dull and lacking luster. With that said i just got my first bike back from Spectrum Powder Coating (it was the customers request and my painter was very curious to see the potential of powder). I have to say it is the most amazing finish. Paid some real money for the work but worth every penny. I still prefer the wet paint but man this has my attention. I do however think it is Spectrum and Spectrum only i would be impressed with.

Curt having just made the leap i am curious what your thoughts are. Why did you go for wet paint when you set up shop? Powder has it advantages for my area (permits and all) and if i could achieve this finish i would set it up in house.

This bike will be at NAHBS and i think people will really like the finish.

Cheers,
Drew

[rphetteplace]

I have several bikes that have been done by Spectrum. The paint is immaculate. Powder is definately different than wet no two ways about it. Just different but equally nice and tougher than nails. I just had a bike wet painted by Spectrum that I haven't gotten back yet also. The pictures they sent are off the hook though and I'm super jazzed to get it.

[steve garro]

spectrum is abso-frickin'-lutely professional and the finished product is off the charts. Mark & Liz are really great, nice people too. always a bonus in this biz. they are who i send bikes to that clients want to be really special. i'm powdercoat all the way. i had about 20 bikes done wet, and next thing i know i'm being slagged on forums for "shoddy paint". the bikes i make get drug through bushes, wrecked, dropped, scraped on rocks, thrown in 3rd world busses, all kinds of stuff, it never ceases to amaze me what people can do to bikes - i sure did awful things to them. powder just holds up. that said, i can see why one would get a swank wet coat on a sweet road bike. check this frame out. i get this powder job done 10min. from my house for $100.00 - primer, base coat, and a clear or sparkle topcoat. average turnaround, 2-3 days. that's what i'm talkin' about...........steve.

[EnginCycles]

Steve,
I hear what you are saying but bad powder (not noticeable from the outside) is really not good for a bike. They rust under the powder and always die a terrible death. I have seen way more yeti's and bontrager's rust through than the wet paint bikes from the same era. paint might chip but primer stays and keeps the bike from rusting through. I could care less about chips. It is a part of bicycles.

This is more about the ability to match a wet paint in masking and details. very rarely do i have a single color finish. most powder people can not touch this finish Spectrum does. My question is more about that. what are we looking at for equal quality? I will just send it to Spectrum for outside work. I am curious about in-house work.

Cheers,
Drew

[steve garro]

Steve,
I hear what you are saying but bad powder (not noticeable from the outside) is really not good for a bike. They rust under the powder and always die a terrible death. I have seen way more yeti's and bontrager's rust through than the wet paint bikes from the same era. paint might chip but primer stays and keeps the bike from rusting through. I could care less about chips. It is a part of bicycles.

This is more about the ability to match a wet paint in masking and details. very rarely do i have a single color finish. most powder people can not touch this finish Spectrum does. My question is more about that. what are we looking at for equal quality? I will just send it to Spectrum for outside work. I am curious about in-house work.

Cheers,
Drew

uuummmm.........i don't THINK that i'm disagreeing with you.........FWIW, i don't think that i'm supplying my clients with a sucky finish. that's why i insist that my powdercoater use the new{ish} primers for powder as well as a topcoat {spectrum does both of these measures as well}. i hate chippy paintjobs, esp. $500.00 ones. i have a bike coming up and the customer is having it sent to Joe Bell - his choice, and that's his choice to make. i'm sure it will be stunning. as per rust, i feel that if you are REALLY using a bike like the tool it's intended to be, then you are going to have to take anti-rust measures as needed, and i think that includes a paintjob every five years or so as well as taking care of the internal rust duties. very few of my clients want anything really fancy - they want a good, straight, durable bike at a good price. if they want to bling it out, i'll help them along that path too......not being confrontational, just sayin'....... steve.

[EnginCycles]

Steve,
I hear you. I trust your local guy is good. Here the local people are always turning employees and that i do not trust. My painter Todd is a GREAT guy and i like him tons. In fact he is looking to get set-up for both powder and the wet paint.

Looking forward to seeing a JB finish on one of your frames. He is a killer guy on top of a killer painter.

Cheers,
Drew

[Curt Goodrich]

Wet paint just looks better on lugs. For me, that's not open for debate. Even Spectrum's powder doesn't look as good as wet on lugs. It's just too thick and rounds over metal work. With that said, if I did mostly fillet or tig then powder makes sense. With tig and fillet, more is better when it comes to the thickness of the coating. Powder does hold up better to chipping but it doesn't do as good of job of sealing up the tubes from moisture. Nothing earth shattering in that statement but again I don't think it's open for debate. Wet paint has virtually unlimitless options when it comes to multi color paint jobs. I'm sure some will counter that Spectrum offers multi color powder. The additional colors are wet paint not powder. Wet clear stays glossy longer than powder clear. I think powder is cool but I really think the finest paint jobs are only achievable with wet paint. That's why I never even considered doing powder in house.

[velocolour]

I have yet to see a nice looking powder job in person but the capabilities of the medium has expanded so much over the past few years. I'm impressed with the quality of the work on Spectrum's site and am looking forward to seeing their stuff at the show.

[conorb]

We've looked at powder the past couple of years, particularly Spectrum in that they really seem to know what they're doing.

Since we do lugs, however, it's just not quite there for delineating the shorelines and keeping everything crisp. This has been said before - so I'm probably being redundant.

For us, wet paint offers an unparalleled combination of luster, depth, and colors that really works well for us.

conorb

[Archibald]

I agree with everything on this page so far. How often can that happen?

They're working on making the powder thinner but it will never be as thin as wet paint. Multi-color powder gets progressively thicker and when it does, it gets less durable in my experience. My personal tastes have changed in the last few years and now I really only like matte & satin finishes and for that, powder is perfect and the finishes are tougher still. All the anodizing has affected my brain I guess....

[woolly]

I'm sure some will counter that Spectrum offers multi color powder. The additional colors are wet paint not powder.

Hey Curt, please help me understand what you're saying here about the "additional colors are wet paint not powder".

[jBay]

it [powder] doesn't do as good of job of sealing up the tubes from moisture.

I'm also curious about the above statement. A friend has a steel frame that was clear powder-coated several years ago. It gets ridden year-round and it looks just like - hmmm, just like it did when he got it coated (it actually looks very cool). There has been no obvious problem with sealing the tubes from moisture.

-- John

[maunahaole]

Fun thread. Powder and wet paint are two such different animals, though. I see CG's point, powder is probably not the best thing for him, as it gets thick on sharp edges. It really would make fine lug work look sloppy. Not sure if there is too much you can do about that, unless you can change the way the static makes the powder adhere to the metal in the first place. On a lugged frame, the lugs are a focal point and you want them to look sharp. On a tig or fillet frame, you probably would not have the same problem. Powder is a gread medium for doing some parts though. On things like racks or stems a powder finish would be great. It is really tough makes for a durable finish.

[Curt Goodrich]

Hey Curt, please help me understand what you're saying here about the "additional colors are wet paint not powder".

I should have been more clear. The multi colored powder that I've had done had the entire frame powder coated one color and then the subsequent colors were air brushed on with wet paint.

[bironi]

I'm a repeat customer of Spectrum. I had a Moots frame done about 4 years back, and my lugged Medici within the last year. I was very pleased with both. The lugs are a bit less defined in powder, but hey, I wanted a very durable but perty winter bike. Our local frame builder, Bill Stevenson has chosen to use Spectrum with many of his recent builds, and refurbishments. Spectrum has done a great job on some of the recent powder coated lug frames for Bill. The lug pin striping has been very nice.

I'm not saying that you won't get a slightly more immaculate job with wet paint, but you also won't get the little dings in your powder coat finish. A friend is still riding a powder coat job I had done about 10 years back, lots of miles, and still looking better than any wet paint job with anywhere near the miles and age.

[lunacycles]

Wet clear stays glossy longer than powder clear.

I have to disagree with this statement. I am a longtime Spectrum customer, and there have been times when I have needed a wet clear over the powder instead of a powder clear, whether for decal preservation reasons or color matching reasons. I have noticed that the wet clear shows more "wear" and loss of gloss much more quickly than a powder clear, especially from banging cables, housing rub, that kind of thing.

[Curt Goodrich]

I have to disagree with this statement. I am a longtime Spectrum customer, and there have been times when I have needed a wet clear over the powder instead of a powder clear, whether for decal preservation reasons or color matching reasons. I have noticed that the wet clear shows more "wear" and loss of gloss much more quickly than a powder clear, especially from banging cables, housing rub, that kind of thing.

Buff it out. Elbow grease and a little Meguiar's. Good as new.

[lunacycles]

Buff what out? I said I noticed that a powder clear tends to hold its glossiness better than the wet clears I have had applied on top of powder, over time. My customers aren't really in the practice of buffing up their own finishes. My goal is to give them the best finish I can, given what I do. Not trying to be disagreeable, just wanting to know what you mean? You said a wet clear stays glossier longer than a powder clear, and that is counter to my experience. Are you saying a wet clear over powder is better if it is applied properly?

[Curt Goodrich]

Buff what out? I said I noticed that a powder clear tends to hold its glossiness better than the wet clears I have had applied on top of powder, over time. My customers aren't really in the practice of buffing up their own finishes. My goal is to give them the best finish I can, given what I do. Not trying to be disagreeable, just wanting to know what you mean? You said a wet clear stays glossier longer than a powder clear, and that is counter to my experience. Are you saying a wet clear over powder is better if it is applied properly?

What I originally said was wet clear stays glossy longer than powder clear. That's been my experience and lots of others. It's not yours. So be it. Buffing a scuffed clear isn't something typically done by customers but it's not out of the ordinary for a framebuilder to take care of it. Think of it as another tool in the tool box or another service provided. I see it as a good idea just like being a good mechanic is a benefit to the builder and the customer. Ultimately EVERY coating will get scratched or dulled due to some sort of friction. Wet clear can be buffed out and it will look great again. Perhaps powder clear can too but since most high end painting is wet most likely there hasn't been products developed to do it. I'm not trying to talk you into wet paint. If you're happy with powder I say melt away. Your goal to provide your customer with the best coating is the same for every framebuilder. That's a given. Follow your bliss.

[woolly]

I should have been more clear. The multi colored powder that I've had done had the entire frame powder coated one color and then the subsequent colors were air brushed on with wet paint.

Thanks Curt.

I've got two of Don Ferris' frames that were finished by Spectrum, and I always assumed that both were all-powder, not a combo of powder & paint. The first one was a single-color with clear over graphics that could take the heat from baking. I'm almost certain he said that it was all-powder. The second one had a much more intricate flame-job, and I always assumed it too was all-powder, but now I'm not sure. Doesn't really matter, both continue to look great after several years & many miles of use. Still curious, though - Don, can you answer this?

FWIW, I certainly agree with you on wet paint for a fine lugged frame - can't beat the "crispness" it provides.