Mills of the Horizontal Persuasion.

[false_aesthetic]

A few horizontal mills have popped up locally over the past few months at prices that are more in line with my budget but I'm pretty clueless about them. For those of you using mitering fixtures on a horizontal mill, what is the bare minimum you'd (size, hp, etc) be looking for if you had to replace your mill?


Thanks

[Eric Estlund]

Are you looking simply for a single use mitering machine?

It really comes down to what your needs are for space, tooling, etc. Are you swapping different tooling? Looking to have everything on one table? Dedicated machines?

The little Barker's seem to work well. Something like a Nicholson handmill is pretty well regarded. I've found that you can sometimes get larger machines for less money because folks don't want to deal with the side. My Milwaukee 1b is pretty rad, was inexpensive, but weights about 2 tons.

[Eric Estlund]

PS- if you are in a tool poor part of the world, something like the Rong Fu mill-drill (HF, Grizzly, Enco, etc) is a sort of sh!t mill, but does just fine as a dedicated tube mitering machine. I'm happy to have moved away from mine, but it did the job for years.

[Andrew R Stewart]

One spec to consider is the limited Y travel many smaller horizontal machines have. This is the axis that your hole saw will cut along. So big diameter tubes or long hole saws/arbors might not allow for a complete cut. Andy

[false_aesthetic]

Are you looking simply for a single use mitering machine?

It really comes down to what your needs are for space, tooling, etc. Are you swapping different tooling? Looking to have everything on one table? Dedicated machines?

I can say that I'd like a dedicated machine for mitering. I have enough space to have a few dedicated machines for each process but I (1) don't want to get ahead of myself; (2) share a shop; (3) work in a shop that sometimes has to be re-arranged when a big project comes in (e.g. 1964 F350 with an über-XL bed).
To that end, I'd prefer to keep the footprint + weight of the machine down. But within reason -- it makes no sense to me to buy a machine for $500 that I'll be frustrated with or outgrow in 6 months.

In terms of fixtures, I have an eye on the Anvil Univ Horiz Mitering Fixture. I see some Barker PM mills for sale in the $4-500 range but they seem so tiny. Not sure if I'd just be walking up and introducing myself to Mr. Frustration with this.

Thanks

[Paul Jacobs]

I know this does not answer your question but I cut my mitres with my lathe. If you have a good lathe this will do the job well. If you don't have a lathe I would get one before a horizontal milling machine because it will do so much else. This is just my opinion.

[Jamie Medeiros]

I am fond of the Nichols horizontal mills. I have 5 set up for different operations.
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They have small footprints and are rock solid.

[shand]

We have a few Harrison Horizontal machines set up for dedicated processes using a mixture of Anvil and Sputnik fixtures. The Harrisons look about the same size as the Nichols in Jamie's pic. You can pick them up very cheap over here (UK). The beauty of a dedicated machine is that you may be able to pick something up that has an issue with a single axis that doesn't effect your use.

Shand22-640x427.jpg

[sam]

The barkers have 2 models, you usually see the smaller one for sale. It works for mitering, but you have to be creative sometimes due to its small size. Nichols are well liked. Hardinge tm/um, and clausing 8540 are both great mills. Cream of the crop is deckel, but expensive. There are several others. Most will have 1hp, unless bigger machines. And that is fine. Watch spindle tapers horizontals were all over the place and some tapers are hard to find tools for.

[false_aesthetic]

Thanks for all the input ya'll. My search for a machine to dedicate to 1 task continues.
In the meantime the shop I'm at isn't too far away from taking delivery of a '64 Bridgeport in pristine condition.

[shirk]

I know this does not answer your question but I cut my mitres with my lathe. If you have a good lathe this will do the job well. If you don't have a lathe I would get one before a horizontal milling machine because it will do so much else. This is just my opinion.

Semi unrelated, how do those carbide hole saws work out for you? I just bought a similar looking set off Amazon for $25 covering from about 15mm up to 53mm. Have not had a chance to use them yet.

[Michael Gordon]

They say the lathe is the only machine tool that can reproduce itself...



All joking aside, it is an extremely versatile tool.

[halekai]

Be careful here with smaller mills and the Anvil Universal miter fixture. The height of the Anvil fixture will prevent you from lowering the table sufficiently to align the center of the cutter with the center of the tube. In other words, so much of the vertical capacity is taken up by the height of the Anvil fixture and rotary table that it may not lower enough to center up.

You can mill the plate on the Anvil fixture to give you a few mm but best to get a machine with sufficient vertical travel to allow room to adjust the center height.

Hope that make sense.

I have a Rotex horizontal mill (500lb) that exactly centers up. I also have a Hardinge TM (1100lb) that has plenty of room. Both are on 1/2" plate steel bases with heavy duty castors so I can wheel them about the shop.

I am not sure the barkers will allow a Anvil fixture plus the rotary table. They would be great with tube blocks and a vise with a rotary table. Depending on your production level and style of tubes you use that might be the way to go.

I you want Ill measure my stack height of my setup so you can compare it to the mills you are looking at.

[Pi Guy]

I you want Ill measure my stack height of my setup so you can compare it to the mills you are looking at.

I'm definitely interested. Thanks much for any info!

[false_aesthetic]

Thanks for the insight Hale.

[halekai]

Pi Guy et al. Sorry for delay. I don't check this site often and I got a little sidetracked...

I measured my Horizontal Mill Center heights as well as for the rotary table and Anvil Universal Mitering Fixture. These are all ruler + eye so don't hold me to the thowie!

The Anvil Fixture has a 2" baseplate + Main plate. Add to that 2.5" from top of main plate to center of clamping apparatus for a total Center height of 4.5"

My Rotary Table (Taiwanese from the 80's) has a total height of 4". Anvil recommends a specific rotary table from the Enco catalogue. I don't know the model number but it is the cheaper one, 8"?. Sometimes they have it on sale. (You can google search for Enco coupon codes and find current 25-40% off). its trial and error

When I first put my mill + Anvil together I thought It was too short and I had the idea of having the baseplate milled down 1/8" or so to make it work. As it turned out I was able to mod the knee on my mill to get a few mm of travel out of it and now it is hunky dory.

Hardinge TM/UM- I have the vertical spindle on it currently so hard to get accurate measurement but it looks like there is a good 10" from the bed to the spindle center so plenty of room there.

Conclusion- It looks like you need 8.5" clearance from Bed to spindle center to use the Anvil Universal Tube Miter fixture in your horizontal mill. (without modifications) Check the specs on your rotary table to see if it is the same as mine and adjust your numbers accordingly.

[edoz]

Y travel is another issue with the Anvil fixture. It won't fit on my mill because the mounting surface is offset to one side of tube center and it would hang off into the space ththe Y crank already occupies. Plus, I don't think the table would move out far enough to get a hole saw mounted.

[halekai]

This is a good point. Ill check my Y travel parameters tonight as well as my stick out for the hole saw.

[EnginCycles]

For purpose of correct info.

X travel is the travel that is greatest on a mill
Y travel is the shorter travel
Z is travel parallel to the spindle

On a horizontal mill the table moving in and out is the Z travel. The knee is the Y travel.

On a vertical mill the knee is Z but if I recall correct the quill of the head is W (I am fuzzy on this but I think it is correct).

[edoz]

For purpose of correct info.

Z is travel parallel to the spindle

On a horizontal mill the table moving in and out is the Z travel. The knee is the Y travel.

Yeah, good point. I wasn't thinking about that right.
My Z axis is the issue for the Anvil main tube fixture.