Coffee dilemma: I'm on the fence help please

[holliscx]

I'm teetering on the brink of giving up coffee. In the past few months on 2-3 occasions I've woken up and felt like I was run over by a train. It felt coffee related so each time I quit coffee cold turkey. The first day's an epic struggle in which I barely function, but by day 3 I'm fine again.

I like coffee and living in Europe it's become part lifestyle where I pop in a cafe to bide my time, chat with people in the neighborhood, or read the paper.

At home I was making stove top espresso with a Bialetti 3 cup. I guess typically I could have 2 of those a day (so technically 6 cups) plus maybe a cortado or cafe con leche out in a bar. But I didn't feel like the 3 cups was that much (I work from home) hence I might have 2 3 cup servings in a day because volume wise it's not that much. I have a single cup Bialetti but it's so small that I'm always kind of meh.

I cut my consumption to make sure I wasn't drinking too much and liked feeling cleansed or purged which is why I'm considering giving up coffee.

But I like coffee and enjoy the ritual, especially working, how you get that buzz of invincibility and feel you could and often do tackle anything.

So I'm writing to see if anyone has had a similar struggle and if maybe downgrading to something like drip coffee would keep me in the game.

I drink tea now but don't really love it. I don't mind sipping cold coffee but cold tea sucks.

[Too Tall]

I've overdone it in recent past. Getting a new gadget inevitably leads to overconsumption, I have poor self control ;)

When this happens to me, about once a year, I simply cut back to one GOOD cup of coffee each morning. That is enough to prevent headaches and gives my body time to adjust. Doing this for a few weeks and I'm back to normal which for me is two double shots in the morning and same in the afternoon.

Try cutting back alot but not quitting.

[Matthew Strongin]

Try cutting back alot but not quitting.

This. I enjoy coffee too much to ever quit, but it was definitely causing issues with my sleep and my stomach. I switched to espresso only and I cut myself off at noon. I don't really limit how much I drink before noon, but whether I've had one shot or 6 I'm done at 12. It no longer impacts my sleep and I can't drink enough in the morning to cause the stomach problems I was having.

[guido]

... I've woken up and felt like I was run over by a train...

I'd worry more about where you are going to sleep...

[deano]

When my wife got pregnant, we switched to half-caf and decaf. It's been a great way to go. Can drink as much as you want without getting so zapped. I honestly feel more like the chill bro I am reputed to at times be. With coffee intake of any kind though I try to chase with lots of water and keep the output nice and clear.

Edit: I forgot to mention, kind of coffee matters a lot too. Those that stick to espresso above are onto something, the darker and espresso roasts often have less caffeine, so are better if you're trying to limit. Very delicate & subtle light and medium roasts were extremely en vogue at the hip coffee shops back in Durham (missing that place), and they have a good deal more caffeine. With going half- and de-caf, I found myself a lot more sensitive and just a cup or two of light roast later and I felt absolutely electrified. Luckily I prefer thick, black cowboy tar coffee mixed with tobacco juice ... that and espresso. Espresso is good too.

[dashDustin]

It’s all about moderation. Enjoy the brew, enjoy the process. Don’t drink coffee because you “need it” and limit yourself so that you don’t reach the point where you “need it”.

[ericpmoss]

As I age (well... shit!), I've had to limit it to one strong cup with breakfast, and so I make darn sure it's a *good* cup. If I *need* coffee, it's a sign that what I need isn't actually coffee, but a walk or an orange or a new job.

[Octave]

I'll echo what pretty much everyone here has said, with a personal anecdote.

My wife had a pretty severe bout of breathing issues about six months ago which we eventually linked to gastric-acid induced asthma - basically her dietary timing and composition had created such an acidic environment that it had caused enough inflammation to impact her respiratory function. We addressed this with a pretty big dietary change (more-or-less GERD with an emphasis on meal-timing) that meant giving up tomatoes, onions, alcohol and (for her) coffee. She was my coffee-buddy in the morning, meaning I would make a large Chemex before getting on my bike to head to work. On days I wasn't at work it'd be another 2-3 of those, adding up to about 6 cups a day. And yes, good coffee. I gave up everything with her, save for the coffee but the lack of a shared ritual has reduced my consumption considerably to about 2 cups per day (one aeropress in the morning and one small french-press at work after lunch).

I've felt a lot of things since reducing my intake, though I'm not sure how many I can attribute solely to the reduction of coffee. Taking out inflammatory foods and alcohol was probably the biggest thing (it's been about six months now) for how I feel on the bike, recovery and all - but one thing I can attribute to the reduction in coffee is the consistency of my energy level. I used to exist on a quasi sine-wave of energy throughout the day, peaks and valleys and all that. Now I drink coffee because I enjoy it, not because I need it to get me out of the valley.

So yeah, that's a long way of saying: reduce it. If you like coffee, barring any health complications there is really no reason to give it up entirely. There are a lot of data on it's health benefits in moderation, and if it brings you pleasure than keep it in your life. Focus on good coffee at the right time.

Side-note, another good means of forcibly reducing your impact a touch is to be very strict about avoiding shit coffee. Here in Marseille probably >90% of the restaurants and at least 60-70% of the cafés use pods, with another percentage using preground. I also took a pledge to avoid single-use plastics about two years ago which means no automated machines in the cafeteria or cheap espressos in the city centre. Just avoiding crap coffee and plastic meant I had already cut my coffee consumption way down before this further reduction in the last six months.

[MarkC]

Piling on... I've cut back. No more coffee after lunch time. As a substitute have gone to hot water. Either straight up or with a bit of lemon.

No issues with the caffeine, was just consuming too much coffee so made an adjustment. Have tried to get into Tea several times and it's not for me.

[holliscx]

The times I quit I was completely despondent lying on the floor unable to engage with my kids. I told my wife that it would only last the first day; begged for her patience. I'm convinced the physical feeling is similar to heroin addiction or other drugs. All I wanted to do was sleep to make the day go away: I knew if I could just get to tomorrow that everything would be alright and it was ... but the second I woke up I knew it was a coffee fog that I didn't want any part of.

I'm surprised no one has suggested drip coffee. Every office I worked in in New York drank shitty drip and there's no way the caffeine content is anywhere near that of so-called good coffee. I may try to go back to French press for it always felt weaker than my Bialetti, but I'd even consider a POS drip machine if it would keep a hot beverage in hand and allow me to hang on to that ritual, for if I didn't like coffee I wouldn't have posted this.

I'm the same way with beer I'd rather enjoy one flawless IPA than drink a 6-pack of Miller Lite but a lot of bros are in the latter camp.

Thanks for your replies. I'll try a little bit of everyone's advice.

[jclay]

I'm teetering on the brink of giving up coffee. In the past few months on 2-3 occasions I've woken up and felt like I was run over by a train. It felt coffee related so each time I quit coffee cold turkey. The first day's an epic struggle in which I barely function, but by day 3 I'm fine again.

I feel your pain. Truly. After years of drinking a morning cappuccino I started to feeling excessively jittery even after getting home from work so I weaned to none over about a month (headache avoidance). Then I tried drinking it occasionally and discovered that I couldn't skip days or I'd get a low-medium intensity headache that would last for a couple of days. I adore relaxing with a coffee, or better still waiting for a train in Europe with one. But daily consumption was problematic and scattered consumption was damn sure not worth headaches. I stopped. Although I like (not adore) tea it can generate the same headaches. Unless I haven't had any coffee for a month then when I fall off the wagon or need a jolt for an early morning drive I usually get the headache later. It just ain't worth it. And it really stinks.

Brew type, caff or de-caff, none of it matters to me - same symptoms.

I hope you can manage a solution that includes coffee but for me I had to kiss it good bye. I still occasionally fall off the wagon but I always regret it. Sometimes I consider just going back to once a day, EVERY day, like a serious medication but I just don't want to live that way. For me it has to be limited to the half dozen times/year when an early morning driving requires it.

Good luck. It really does suck.

On cold mornings I've taken to heating a mug of water. It's warm, but pathetic.

[giordana93]

I fail to see how drip has anything to do with it, but can definitely sympathize. I've had to cut back on occasion and try to limit to morning if possible. I also tried substituting some teas, although black tea is harsher on my tummy than coffee. A South African friend had to give up coffee and alcohol and drank only his native Rooibos tea, which I gave a try as an occasional substitute for a cup of joe and I highly, highly, recommend it, esp. if you enjoy coffee with a bit of milk. It is fine "black" (er, "red"), but is also really nice with a dollop of milk and I find it a great, soothing sub for caffeinated brews when I don't want the buzz. It's also loaded with anti-oxidants and touted to be good for all kinds of medicinal properties but I'll leave that for the organic new age crowd. still, it's good stuff. I buy a big bag from amz (not tea bags) but you can get it in bags too.

[holliscx]

I fail to see how drip has anything to do with it, but can definitely sympathize.

Just that a Mr. Coffee produces a weaker, larger cup of coffee. Espresso yields stronger coffee in less volume so beaucoup caffeine if you drink several.

[giordana93]

Just that a Mr. Coffee produces a weaker, larger cup of coffee. Espresso yields stronger coffee in less volume so beaucoup caffeine if you drink several.

got it; I only get espresso outside the house, but a cup of coffee is a cup of coffee, whether it be a short pull or a big cup. If anything, drip may be worse as it is all too easy to pour a travel mug of 24 oz or so. slurp down a couple of those in a highly caffeinated bean and you'll be bouncing off the walls for hours

[Matthew Strongin]

My understanding is that drip is worse for caffeine intake because of the volume typically consumed. So it may be weaker per ounce, but you drink many more ounces of it compared with espresso. I cut regular coffee out entirely and only drink espresso now and I'm much less jittery because even on a bad day I've only consumed around 5 or 6 ounces. That's less than a single cup of regular coffee.

[j44ke]

Re: GERD & coffee. It can also increase the chances of sleep apnea-type breathing problems, which may be part of what the whole gastric-acid induced asthma issue (which I had - got rid of the GERD but not the asthma which seems also exercise/allergy related for me.) Sleep apnea will make you feel like you've been beaten while sleeping or have a hangover because you never really slept. And while espresso is not the volume of drip coffee, it is all of the acid if not more so. So espresso is not a bad idea, but precede it in the morning with food so you don't just have coffee in your stomach. Then only one cup before 12 and another cup between say 2 and 3PM. That's it. Eating is so habitual - or even ritual - that if you make it a set pattern, your body seems to adjust more readily.

Also drink water whenever the impulse to make another coffee occurs. Feeling sleepy mid-afternoon due to a lack of caffeine or is it the dozy feeling you get when slightly dehydrated? Water won't be as satisfying initially, but often I think dosing with caffeine becomes a substitute for hydration.

After my experience with GERD, I've wondered if there wasn't something about cycling - the position of the stomach on a road bike, the exertion of the core area, the heavy mouth breathing during that exertion, and the habit of eating a relatively large amount of food after cycling - might not create a propensity for this sort of GERD. I would be interested to see if there were any studies of cyclists and GERD and whether there was any correlation.

After my

[ericpmoss]

Drip is more caffeinated per normal serving for a few reasons. One is that the beans are typically roasted less, leaving more caffeine intact before brewing. The water for brewed coffee should be 205F while espresso should be from 194-201F. Additionally, the extraction time is 4 minutes vs 25 seconds. Taken together, a good cuppa will have a lot more kick. That's what the books say, at least.

[Octave]

Re: GERD & coffee....

Your experience very much lines up with my wife's (and to a minor degree with my own - I've had a recurring ulcer issue for about 8 years and the longest period without symptoms has been since changing my diet [both timing and content] along with her) - coffee on an empty stomach, then exercise was her go-to morning schedule. Now it's food, no coffee, wait and exercise post-digestion and she is nearly completely without symptoms.

And at the risk of causing more thread-drift, check out Nieuwenhoven et al., 2003 (PMID: 14634826) for a small insight into your question - it's a small sample size and they're not directly addressing the question in cyclists only (they do rest vs. running vs. cycling as their three conditions) but they do find that cycling induces an increase in reported upper-GI reflux episodes and their duration, which would fit with a slower rate of gastric emptying caused by the contracted upper-body position that most cyclists are in during exercise. They also quote a 1999 study early on in the paper that shows that compared to runners, cyclist exhibit significantly higher levels of upper-GI symptoms than lower-GI symptoms, which would fit with your idea on bike position.

[guido]

And at the risk of causing more thread-drift, check out Nieuwenhoven et al., 2003 (PMID: 14634826) for a small insight into your question - it's a small sample size and they're not directly addressing the question in cyclists only (they do rest vs. running vs. cycling as their three conditions) but they do find that cycling induces an increase in reported upper-GI reflux episodes and their duration, which would fit with a slower rate of gastric emptying caused by the contracted upper-body position that most cyclists are in during exercise. They also quote a 1999 study early on in the paper that shows that compared to runners, cyclist exhibit significantly higher levels of upper-GI symptoms than lower-GI symptoms, which would fit with your idea on bike position.

I have been having far less upper GI symptoms since I have been primarily running/hiking (and cutting out carbs so it is not exactly a clean experiment). Still drink a lot of coffee though...

[j44ke]

That's interesting.

I now wait longer to ride after eating and I eat earlier in the evening and don't eat anything after 9PM. No coffee on an empty stomach and much more water than ever before. I also no longer eat more than necessary just to avoid having leftovers, and I try not to overeat pre-ride out of anxiety about possibly bonking or post-ride from eyes-bigger-than-stomach syndrome. I can eat a lot and have a fast metabolism (shrew like actually) but there is only so much food a stomach can hold.

I think one of the things to watch with a drip coffee maker is that the available supply allows you to over drink by volume if not caffeine and fill your stomach with liquid. That affects the strength of the valve at the top of your stomach.

I think with coffee there is a certain value to its role in the rituals of the day, so decreasing rather than eliminating is preferable. There have been times when I've gotten up in the morning and had no time to actually get coffee made, so I've had to be active and thinking clearly without it right from the start and around noon, I realize I didn't have any coffee and was functioning just fine. So I know there is more to coffee than just caffeine. Or as Joseph Campbell said about other things, this is one of those rituals that both celebrates & ensures the sun's reappearance in the morning after the anxiety of night. Or something to that effect.

So just cut back a bit. Two espressos, one in the morning, one in the afternoon, plus plenty of water, should be fine.