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Thread: Enamel Paint

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Enamel Paint

    My latest paint attempt. Home mixed Rustoleum orange on Nagasawa BB and Sansom lugs.

    IMG_2779.jpgIMG_2774.jpg

    Russ Kanz

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Enamel Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by Rkanz View Post
    My latest paint attempt. Home mixed Rustoleum orange on Nagasawa BB and Sansom lugs.

    IMG_2779.jpgIMG_2774.jpg

    Russ Kanz
    Very nice! Seriously glossy.

    What was your color recipe?
    John Clay
    Tallahassee, FL
    My Framebuilding: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21624415@N04/sets

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Enamel Paint

    I don't know the exact ratio of yellow and red. I am not sure I like the color. I think it needs more yellow.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Enamel Paint

    Well, after all of my thrashing about, I've come full circle, and without painting a frame. Recent scratch testing of my Rustoleum painted test piece was disappointing. It hasn't cured for a terribly long time but I didn't expect to be able to scratch down to the primer with a fingernail. I tried that on a several frames I painted with Nason (one Ful-Base & one Ful-Thane) & one PPG (Global Refinishing) and it felt like I was trying scratch glass; it just wasn't going to happen. In fairness, the cure times are years vs. a few weeks but that was enough to get me to reevaluate. I took another look at my auto paint stock, checked some technical details and realized that I don't need to get any more activator to make use of 90% of it. In addition, the primers and bases mixed up OK too; I thought they had become unusable but, happily, it appears not.

    Some of the technical details I found, which may be useful to others: Nearly all of my base is Ful-Thane and it turns out that the Nason Select Clear activator (still liquid) is suitable for use with Ful-Base; not sure about it's compatibility with Ful-Thane but I have almost none of that. It also turns out that I can use any combination of the Nason & PPG primers (Full Poxy & PPG DP48LF), colors/bases and clears (Select Clear and PPG DCU2002) that I have. That's not going to be news to those of you who know your way around these products but it was to me. The net result is that between Nason and PPG I have maybe 8 frames worth of epoxy primer & clear systems ready to go, and 4 frames worth of base that can use the Select Clear activator. I won't have to replace primers, base and several activators only to have most of them solidify in the can. As I use up my current stock I'll standardize on whatever combination of these products loses the least to solidification. Right now that looks like either primer, Nason Ful-Base and Nason Select Clear.

    In the mean time I'll consign the Rusto test piece to a long term cure in the attic and check it's hardness periodically. I think I'll shoot a piece without the activator to see how that goes. If either get tough enough after some months then I'll have something to think about. I'll also have the paint!

    Thanks for all the information Russ. I've learned things and will be interested in how the paint holds up for you. I'll report back on my test pieces.
    John Clay
    Tallahassee, FL
    My Framebuilding: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21624415@N04/sets

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Enamel Paint

    I decided to go ahead with the Rustoleum for this frame. I shot it today. It was a disaster (pilot error: controlled flight into ground). The finished paint job is garbage but it was a learning experience that was best done with inexpensive paint!

    I wiped the primed frame down with a paper towel dampened with mineral spirits and thinned the paint with the same, except I'd picked up the paint thinner can. I discovered that after mixing the paint. Tossed it, remixed and re-wiped, this time with real mineral spirits. While shooting the fork I noticed that it looked terrible. I didn't shoot the frame. The paint was acting funny, there was no gloss and little nibs of something were all over the place.

    The nibs were paper towel lint. The frame had been sitting for a week and I figured a quick wipe down to remove any dust would be wise. I won't make that mistake again.

    I don't know if the residual paint thinner from the primer wipe-down caused any problems but it didn't seem to mix into the paint easily, in the few moments of mixing before I realized my mistake. Any ideas on that?

    The good news is that mixing Kubota Orange and Sunburst Yellow at anywhere from 1:1 to 2:1 made a nice orange. I ended up at 2:1 which in retrospect was a bit too far. 1.5:1 is probably closer to where I want to be.

    I have a lot of sanding to do once the orange sets up.
    IMG_2379.jpg
    John Clay
    Tallahassee, FL
    My Framebuilding: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21624415@N04/sets

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    Default Re: Enamel Paint

    I did a quick and dirty sanding job, added a bit more yellow and resprayed the fork. It turned out well. It's glossier than the slightly out of focus photos show.

    IMG_2443.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    John Clay
    Tallahassee, FL
    My Framebuilding: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21624415@N04/sets

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    Default Re: Enamel Paint

    Try using reducer to thin the paint instead of paint thinner or mineral spirits. The paint will dry faster, spray better, be glossier, and dry harder.

    Russ Kanz

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    Default Re: Enamel Paint

    Any downside to using a hardener along with the reducer when spraying rustoleum?

    thanks, Brian
    The older I get the faster I was Brian Clare

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    Default Re: Enamel Paint

    John, I find paint frustrating and mystifying as hell, so I appreciate the time you’ve taken to share all your experiments and lessons with us.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Enamel Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by Rkanz View Post
    Try using reducer to thin the paint instead of paint thinner or mineral spirits. The paint will dry faster, spray better, be glossier, and dry harder.
    Russ Kanz
    I will on the next one. I think I'll shoot a test pipe with Rusto thinned with MS, real reducer and then each of those with the Majic activator added; cure it in the attic and see what comes of it.

    I brushed & blew the paper towel lint off and then shot the frame with the previously mixed color today, so MS was the thinner. I thinned it a tad more but it wasn't as watery as the urethanes I've used. I got some good gloss and a couple of sags. I think a quicker flash would be helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by claritycycler View Post
    Any downside to using a hardener along with the reducer when spraying rustoleum?
    thanks, Brian
    As far as I know it's mostly the fact that respiratory protection is more important. Majic says the activator will increase the hardness by 30%, the gloss by 10%, and decrease they dry time by 40%. In my test piece the hardness aspect didn't appear to pan out though I sprayed the Majic clear over the activated test paint (Rusto); I didn't do that with the smaller dab of unactivated Rusto and it appeared to resist fingernail scratching better but I wouldn't view that as definitive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Hudson View Post
    John, I find paint frustrating and mystifying as hell, so I appreciate the time you’ve taken to share all your experiments and lessons with us.
    Thanks Ben. I hope it helps. The info Russ provided has been beneficial to me.

    I've done about a dozen frames with urethanes (a couple single stage, the rest base/clear) and I think this oil stuff looks very good even if not quite as glossy. The durability will be interesting but touching up the oils should quicker/easier/cheaper than doing a proper repair job with the urethanes. I'll know more after a year of riding the oil painted frame and if it doesn't pan out it's no big deal.

    IMG_2392.jpg
    John Clay
    Tallahassee, FL
    My Framebuilding: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21624415@N04/sets

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Enamel Paint

    Reducer is used to thin the paint so it will spray and flatten. Catalyst makes the paint dry faster, increases gloss, and makes the paint harder. I always use reducer and catalyst. I never use paint thinner or mineral spirits to thin Rustoleum.

    3 parts paint thinner and 1 part Mobile 1 synthetic motor oil makes a great chain lube.

    Russ Kanz

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    Default Re: Enamel Paint

    I sanded the paint sags, added catalyst to the remaining paint and put the last coat on the frame and fork. The photos don't really show it well but it's quite glossy; much better than yesterday's results. I don't know if thats down to improved technique, the reduction in gun pressure (I'm having pressure regulator problems but today I managed to get it down to about 40 psi), addition of catalyst or some combination. I hope that the catalyst in this coat will assist the cure of the previous coat; folks have noted that effect on some of the hot-rod painting forums I've visited so I thought I might as well try it.

    I put a screw eye into the carport ceiling and hung the frame by a rope with a hook through the seat post binder ears. Having the frame right side up and the ability to manipulate it was a huge improvement over clamping a broomstick vertically in my vise and slipping the seat tube over it.

    IMG_2446.jpg

    IMG_2394.jpg
    John Clay
    Tallahassee, FL
    My Framebuilding: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21624415@N04/sets

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Enamel Paint

    Well, I had to find out for myself. The oil based paint I've been messing with (Rustoleum Stops Rust and Majic Paints) isn't turning out to be durable enough to suit me. It's far simpler to touch up but my urethane frames don't need that very often. So, it's back to automotive urethanes but I'm going to make it as simple as possible; a two part primer and one color (Molteni-ish orange, of course) in a single stage, activated paint. One brand, no more clear coating.
    John Clay
    Tallahassee, FL
    My Framebuilding: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21624415@N04/sets

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