let's talk marketing

[hampco]

what works? what doesn't? whose marketing gets us hot?

carl strong shows what works for him: http://www.strongframes.com/webisode/

[e-RICHIE]

you're selling space - the space you occupy. if your space is
rich with enthusiasm, it will be contagious, and folks will pay
you for it atmo.

[Chris]

This is an off the cuff reaction, so it may vary a little if I were to think about it. For me, what draws me to one brand over another is the product's affiliation with something that makes me feel like we have in common, the heritage, or a personal connection.

Affiliation - I dig the Rapha Continental, so I have certainly perused and considered the builders on there more seriously than I might have if they hadn't been affiliated with The Continental. Likewise, the Hampsten brand -despite being built by others-intrigues me because I was a big fan of Andy back in the day and I respect what he has done with his life since. It's not to say that I wouldn't appreciate those bikes on their own, but (not knowing Steve) believing that Andy has some influence in the product makes me look at them a little more. The review of their aluminum bike recently didn't hurt either...

Heritage-Bianchi, DeRosa, Sachs, Della Santa, despite their vast differences in product and even methods, get second looks from me all the time because of the history of the "brands"

Personal Connection - I was a Moots fan first and foremost because a buddy of mine works there. My appreciation of the product came after the exposure to the frames from seeing my friend's. Likewise, "knowing" some of the builders through this forum and the Serotta forum makes me much more likely to take a look at them.

Magazine ads don't work. The only one that ever did anything for me was the Klein with the Porsche on it. That was cool.

[david]

you have to have a point of view and you have to share it.

w/o that, you're just another soulless provider of goods and services.

[Blue Jays]

Most of these bulletpoints shared below can easily be adapted to *any* kind of purchase, whether a product or a service.
The vast majority of custom high-end builders have a good grasp on these concepts.
The youthful builder-come-lately who is essentially fabricating frames as a hobbyist might have difficulties rising to these business challenges:

Contributors:
* builder / designer accessibility
* builder willingness to reach client for project collaboration
* flexibility / vision
* strong opinions
* occasional non-bicycle coverage, e.g. newspapers

Detractors:
* overreliance on static magazine advertisement
* lack of "methodology behind madness"
* overpromising / underdelivering

[zank]

It seems to me that success comes when a builder stops trying to be all things to all people, focuses hard on what really winds their clock and begins to make innovations based on their vision. The best marketing and/or sales pitch comes from customers who really appreciate that the builder solved a problem for them, whether it's handling, fit, aesthetics, and on and on. It's slow and takes time to foster, but having your customers sell for you is infinitely valuable.

[hampco]

It seems to me that success comes when a builder stops trying to be all things to all people, focuses hard on what really winds their clock and begins to make innovations based on their vision. The best marketing and/or sales pitch comes from customers who really appreciate that the builder solved a problem for them, whether it's handling, fit, aesthetics, and on and on. It's slow and takes time to foster, but having your customers sell for you is infinitely valuable.

i couldn't have said it better myself

as a matter of fact, i'm sure i did say this

and because of this, i'm stealing zank's straight fork idea

seriously though, the most successful builders seem to have a style that they work in - very few seem to be the old-fashioned tell-me-what-you-want-and-i'll-do-it type of builder. most of them have that vision thing - it may be hard to see sometimes, but it's there.

[Shinomaster]

It seems to me that success comes when a builder stops trying to be all things to all people, focuses hard on what really winds their clock and begins to make innovations based on their vision. The best marketing and/or sales pitch comes from customers who really appreciate that the builder solved a problem for them, whether it's handling, fit, aesthetics, and on and on. It's slow and takes time to foster, but having your customers sell for you is infinitely valuable.

Terry sold me on your bike. Oh, and so did Turd.

[e-RICHIE]

seriously though, the most successful builders seem to have a style that they work in - very few seem to be the old-fashioned tell-me-what-you-want-and-i'll-do-it type of builder. most of them have that vision thing - it may be hard to see sometimes, but it's there.

i think if you look back at history (as opposed to looking ahead at it...)
you'll find that most framebuilders built their frames, not their clients' frames.
if that needs explaining, you wouldn't get it. it was truly a byproduct of the
bike boom and many 70s era usa cyclo-journalists that many folks assumed
that framebuilding and what is seen as custom framebuilding were one in
the same. few, if any (and the any were a dot on the pie chart of anomalies)
framebuilders really made the frames to the whims of the clients. to be sure,
concessions were made. but essentially, the framebuilders who were around
then and are now part of the long list of names that are considered "masters"
- these folks knew what went where, and stayed within their own guidelines.
the notion that a client would agonize over geometry details and eventually
get to a framebuilder's doorstep with notes on napkins and graph paper is a
very provincial one at best, and a naive one as well atmo.


ducking.

[curtisvill]

i think if you look back at history (as opposed to looking ahead at it...) you'll find that most framebuilders built their frames, not their clients' frames.

This says it all.

[GSmith]

The OP was about marketing, and it's interesting to note that much of the commentary is about reputation.

Average marketing is getting a consumer to act on a real or perceived need.

Good marketing is about creating a positive emotional connection that results in someone acting on a real or perceived need, and feeling good about it.

Great marketing is sustaining good marketing over a long enough run that people consistently talk about you or your brand in a positive light... a reputation.

[Tom Kellogg]

We do actually pay for space on the pages of publications, a little, but not really for marketing reasons per se. We are in VeloNews and Bicycle Quarterly, not because those adds sell for us (they don't) but because we want to support publications that we believe should stick around.

The effective marketing that gets done around here is by our customers. Simple as that. There are a few of them on this forum and others who sell our frames for us. I surely could not afford the kind of print or video marketing that would actually sell bikes. If we didn't generate a few happy customers every once in a while, we'd be sunk. That is the case for ALL of the builders who have been at it over a long period of time. Simple.

[Saab2000]

We do actually pay for space on the pages of publications, a little, but not really for marketing reasons per se. We are in VeloNews and Bicycle Quarterly, not because those adds sell for us (they don't) but because we want to support publications that we believe should stick around.

But don't think those small ads in Velonews aren't seen. They are. Every once in a while I'll buy a Velonews and I do see the Spectrum advertisement. I imagine others do too.

Anyway, is reputation the result of superior product/service? Or is it the result of marketing? How much of marketing is advertising? They may not always be the same.

I can remember large, full-page ads by Richard Sachs in Velonews (I think) about 15 years ago. Those cannot have been inexpensive.

[e-RICHIE]

I can remember large, full-page ads by Richard Sachs in Velonews (I think) about 15 years ago. Those cannot have been inexpensive.

they were reasonable, for the time. i was always on a contract with
them for insertion frequency so the per issue $$ was not that high.
i always suggest advertising in a periodical for a multi-season run
if/when at all atmo. if you plant an ad once, it's a donation.

[gt6267a]

i think if you look back at history (as opposed to looking ahead at it...)
you'll find that most framebuilders built their frames, not their clients' frames.
if that needs explaining, you wouldn't get it. it was truly a byproduct of the
bike boom and many 70s era usa cyclo-journalists that many folks assumed
that framebuilding and what is seen as custom framebuilding were one in
the same. few, if any (and the any were a dot on the pie chart of anomalies)
framebuilders really made the frames to the whims of the clients. to be sure,
concessions were made. but essentially, the framebuilders who were around
then and are now part of the long list of names that are considered "masters"
- these folks knew what went where, and stayed within their own guidelines.
the notion that a client would agonize over geometry details and eventually
get to a framebuilder's doorstep with notes on napkins and graph paper is a
very provincial one at best, and a naive one as well atmo.


ducking.

As you say, its clearly not a guy with blueprints going to a fabrication shop to make a widget = custom. Whether it’s a handmade frame, basket, mug, or kitchen table, customers choose the craftsman that suites them and they make products in their style for the customer made-to-measure. Do you have a word / phrase to represent that without writing a paragraph?

[e-RICHIE]

As you say, its clearly not a guy with blueprints going to a fabrication shop to make a widget = custom. Whether it’s a handmade frame, basket, mug, or kitchen table, customers choose the craftsman that suites them and they make products in their style for the customer made-to-measure. Do you have a word / phrase to represent that without writing a paragraph?

yes, of course atmo -

[GSmith]

i always suggest advertising in a periodical for a multi-season run
if/when at all atmo. if you plant an ad once, it's a donation.

Spot on.

We've committed to two years with Rouleur, and more recently, Embrocation. It's not inexpensive, and it's hard to make any direct connection to sales, but both pubs are read by enthusiasts for the most part, run by good people who love the game, and Rouleur provides vital international exposure.

Marketing in the proactive sense does not come naturally to product-centric folks, but in today's day and age, ignoring it in the spirit of "if you build it, they will come", is a risky proposition. Great reputations don't happen by product or marketing alone; you need both, and you need to sustain it over time.

There's no doubt that a great reputation is earned one customer/bike at a time, but if customers don't know that you exist, or what you represent as an alternative to all of the other messaging that they are bombarded with in mainstream media, it will take a long time to build enough of a business to keep the lights on, perhaps too long for most folk's cash reserves.

Yesterday's customers are indeed our most valuable asset in the marketing mix, but attracting tomorrow's customers is not something that can be left to good fortune... especially in today's environment.

Guys like Richard have it dialed, whether it was a conscious execution of a pre-conceived brand strategy or not, he has established a virtuous circle of great product, customer experience, marketing "voice", and sustained execution of all three over a long run.

Think about it, given that he is effectively sold out through to retirement, why should he continue to advertise, show up at trade shows, sponsor race teams, and maintain an online presence? Aside from elements of self-indulgence (lots of this stuff is just plain fun and gratifying), and citizenship (good to promote the game); I'd posit that he is wise enough to know that you can't let the new car smell and shine wane, and take your past rep for granted, when folks are still out there waiting for your product.

[moran]

Gary is correct. Great marketing establishes an emotional connection with the consumer. They love the product, the image they feel the product projects, or the way having the product makes them feel.

Another great marketing strategy is leveraging the halo effect. Essentially, reinforcing your brand's image thru associations with other brands. These brands typically have an already established perception with consumers that is consistent with the way you would like your brand to be perceived.

For a few examples, look to what Seven did with Audi USA. Also, what Gary has done with his companies. IF has done a great job of leveraging the halo effect thru their association with Rouleur/Rapha/Embrocation. On the Baileyworks side of the business...think of the Mercedes commercial Gary posted a few days ago.

[Roman]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl.../rapaille.html

[steve garro]

what works? what doesn't?

a client with two, or a family with four of your bikes. to others, that speaks loudly. also, sticking to your "style". people should be able to tell it's your work without a logo on it. my dos centavos, steve.