Caroline Kennedy --- 2020

[Corso]

Did you read the article or just link it?

US aid to Mexico is primarily to support Mexican law enforcement to interdict drugs and other illegal products smuggled from (often through) Mexico to the United States. Unless you think the wall is going to stop all of the illegal trade (airplanes?boats?submarines?hidden in legal trade?) cutting off the aid hurts the US as much or more than Mexico.

Yes I read the article. No I don’t agree with everything in it.

Do you believe Mexico is actually putting that money to fight the drug war?

Would you rather see that Mexican money go to help develop some social programs in Detroit?

I would.

[colker]

Colker: Exactly HOW should my country handle the illegal immigration crisis we’re in? Your calling our President lot’s of names, and accusing him of not having a “smart” plan, I’d love to hear your intelligent thoughts.

The floor is yours my friend:

How do illegals prosper on the US ground? They have a plan: they have work agencies finding them jobs. No one crosses the desert paying huge sums to coyotes just to shout out loud " I am in America!"
American intelligence agencies can easily locate and put pressure on the net that not only accepts but BRINGS illegals into the US. It´s a business. Crack the network and the flood stops. NO one will cross borders if there is not a business that puts them to work immediately.
When Trump builds the wall he is building another Trump Tower...Crack down the illegal network that rips poor people off. Those criminals should be deported to Mexico if mexican and jailed if american. Then illegals stop coming.
The US turned a blind eye to illegals for a long time because it kept costs down on the american economy. That´s how a net was built to bring illegals in the first place. NOw , illegals are detrimental to the US, fair enough but it´s the US job to dismantle the net not only because it was created to serve the US economy but what they do is illegal only in the US soil: it´s not illegal in Mexico to promise anyone jobs in America. Instead of doing what needs to be done, Trump wants to blame and tell Mexicans to fix it. Oh.. poor US, such a victim of bad mexicans. Cry me a river.

[GonaSovereign]

Thanks for digging deeper. And yeah. The Washington Times...



And to my earlier point, today's column from Shirley Leung (the very best reason to read the Boston Globe).

Foreigner here, so I won't comment on your politics. That said, this chart is excellent. Readers of English on Earth would do well to digest its contents. Print and put on the wall! (Not that wall.) Whether you sit on one end of the political spectrum or the other, or somewhere in between, you're always better off consuming information from both sides of the middle third of this diagram. You'll be more well-rounded as a human and better able to think for yourself. Don't let the media on the margins into your world. Fact check shit. Ask questions.

(And it's still an atrocity that this thread has more posts than the heavy metal thread. Prioritize, people.)

[colker]

Yes I read the article. No I don’t agree with everything in it.

Do you believe Mexico is actually putting that money to fight the drug war?

Would you rather see that Mexican money go to help develop some social programs in Detroit?

I would.

I have seen the drug war in Mexico and it´s nasty: big convoys of black clad military armed to their teeth and fear all around. Take the drug war out and Mexico becomes a much better place. Actually i believe that the end of such collaborations w7 less give away money will do a ton of good to Mexico.

[Corso]

How do illegals prosper on the US ground? They have a plan: they have work agencies finding them jobs. No one crosses the desert paying huge sums to coyotes just to shout out loud " I am in America!"
American intelligence agencies can easily locate and put pressure on the net that not only accepts but BRINGS illegals into the US. It´s a business. Crack the network and the flood stops. NO one will cross borders if there is not a business that puts them to work immediately.
When Trump builds the wall he is building another Trump Tower...Crack down the illegal network that rips poor people off. Those criminals should be deported to Mexico if mexican and jailed if american. Then illegals stop coming.
The US turned a blind eye to illegals for a long time because it kept costs down on the american economy. That´s how a net was built to bring illegals in the first place. NOw , illegals are detrimental to the US, fair enough but it´s the US job to dismantle the net not only because it was created to serve the US economy but what they do is illegal only in the US soil: it´s not illegal in Mexico to promise anyone jobs in America. Instead of doing what needs to be done, Trump wants to blame and tell Mexicans to fix it. Oh.. poor US, such a victim of bad mexicans. Cry me a river.

Yes, we have let this go on for too long. But the tipping point has hit.

I’m not sure where you get your information, but it’s not all about jobs and work. What about the children sent alone over the border?. They are taken care of on my dime, not yours.

If the “undocumented” sustained themselves on the money they made in the US, there may not be a problem (except in lost taxes collected). It’s the drain on public money, money raised by legal taxpayers that is the problem.

Illegals in my city are given public housing ahead of US homeless veterans. And if a state worker ask about their “undocumented state”, the state worker can get fired.

Police in my city arrest and arrest and arrest the same illegals for drunk driving without a license, insurance, giving false names…and they get fast tracked to court, pay a low cash fine they can easily cover, then they are back again, because my state doesn’t enforce ICE rules… It’s not until they actually KILL someone before they are held for ICE.

When schools plan and budget for a class of 30 kids, based on the towns census, and 40 kids show up for that class, (and ARE NOT denied entry to school), what happens? Overcrowded class, interpreters need to be hired, the school now has to cut other programs (the arts are the first to go) due to budgets that are blown out.

And those kids and families are fed also. This is one city. Multiply that by the country.

It’s easy for you to sit in South America and criticize what goes on here.

[colker]

Yes, we have let this go on for too long. But the tipping point has hit.

I’m not sure where you get your information, but it’s not all about jobs and work. What about the children sent alone over the border?. They are taken care of on my dime, not yours.

If the “undocumented” sustained themselves on the money they made in the US, there may not be a problem (except in lost taxes collected). It’s the drain on public money, money raised by legal taxpayers that is the problem.

Illegals in my city are given public housing ahead of US homeless veterans. And if a state worker ask about their “undocumented state”, the state worker can get fired.

Police in my city arrest and arrest and arrest the same illegals for drunk driving without a license, insurance, giving false names…and they get fast tracked to court, pay a low cash fine they can easily cover, then they are back again, because my state doesn’t enforce ICE rules… It’s not until they actually KILL someone before they are held for ICE.

When schools plan and budget for a class of 30 kids, based on the towns census, and 40 kids show up for that class, (and ARE NOT denied entry to school), what happens? Overcrowded class, interpreters need to be hired, the school now has to cut other programs (the arts are the first to go) due to budgets that are blown out.

And those kids and families are fed also. This is one city. Multiply that by the country.

It’s easy for you to sit in South America and criticize what goes on here.

I am in Mexico as well.. South America could not care less about Trump. Every trouble you listed can be dealt w/ on the legal side. It´s how it´s treated legally that the trouble lies.
Building a humilliating wall will make it much harder for the US to find cooperation from Mexico when dealing w/ any crisis. I have always hoped that the US could take away their anti drug money and DEA from Mexico.. i always told mexicans that the US should crack down hard on illegal immigration.. it woul do a ton of good to Mexico since it will have to sort out it´s problems. The border w/ the US rots their society. The less easy for them to dream the american dream the better is future in Mexico. otoh building a wall is the most brutal, stupid solution which will do much worse to americans than mexicans in the long term. The US needs Mexico in the long term ( food for example) while Mexico is better off w/out helping america sort it´s drug trouble and w/out filling it´s low wage work market .

[guido]

Colker: Exactly HOW should my country handle the illegal immigration crisis we’re in?

What illegal immigration crisis are we in? Immigration has been down substantially down since the downturn in the economy in 2009. The only immigration crisis I see is a bunch of white guys whining about it instead of facing the real problems we face in the country. Trump wants to spend billions on a wall that would be far better off spent on education.

[Corso]

What illegal immigration crisis are we in? Immigration has been down substantially down since the downturn in the economy in 2009. The only immigration crisis I see is a bunch of white guys whining about it instead of facing the real problems we face in the country. Trump wants to spend billions on a wall that would be far better off spent on education.

Life must be nice where you live.

[spopepro]

Life must be nice where you live.

Yes, indeed life is good in the United States, where total (documented and not) migration from Mexico is negative, and the number of unauthorized crossings have fallen every year since 2007.

[rowdyhillrambler]

Stupid fucking borders, non existent physical lines drawn on some elementary maps?!?!

I get it, but come on.. We are humans, all trying to get there... It's the heart and the soul...


I will personally never shut my door to those in need, as long as I can.. And, as long as we can afford $1m bombs we can say hello to our neighbors.

[guido]

Life must be nice where you live.

It's nice where you live too.

[colker]

I thought religious freedom was on the foundation of The United States of America but the president just ordered that christians can come in and muslims cannot.
I understand the security measures but i guess ripping apart the founding guidelines of the nation was not on the menu. I really understand the safety risks involved but i would rather see all syrians being denied asylum than religious discrimination taking place. I don´t know. Maybe.

[colker]

Presidents lead based on principle and morality.. they uplift and preserve the principles that justify the nation.
President is not the guy who can find you a good deal.

[colker]

Presidents lead based on principle and morality.. they uplift and preserve the principles that justify the nation.
President is not the guy who can find you a good deal.

... actually: a very bad deal> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/o...op-region&_r=0

[rec head]

I'm a bit late to this thread and see that it has gone a bit OT.

Back to the original post I have to say stop thinking about 2020. Mid terms are in 2018 and we need to get to work.

[davids]

I would love to see immigration reform. We got damn close ten years ago. But the Right couldn’t bear the thought of amnesty for people already here, and the Left poked holes in the Guest Worker proposal. And immigration reform died.

Here’s something else to think about: Immigrants are not the same thing as refugees. Refugees are a subset, and face dangers that other immigrants, legal or illegal, do not. The issues are different depending on whether we’re discussing immigration quotas by country or allowing people fleeing their native countries in fear of their lives. Yes the two overlap. But it’s careless sloppy thinking to merge the two issues.

Illegals in my city are given public housing ahead of US homeless veterans. And if a state worker ask about their “undocumented state”, the state worker can get fired.

You are, simply, wrong.

Boston Housing Authority receives funding from both the Federal and State governments. Federal funding cannot be spent on people who are not citizens or legal residents of the US. State funding does not have the restriction. BHA only requires applicants for Federally-funded housing to provide documentation of citizenship/legal residency. BHA does not ask the question of applicants to State-funded housing. BHA offers housing to applicants based on a combination of their application date (the longer you wait, the higher your relative ranking) and a point system. Among the attributes that earn applicants points is Veteran’s status. So everything else being equal, a Veteran (or a member of Veteran’s family) is always ranked higher than a non-Veteran.

Not quite the soundbite that you posted, but my explanation has the advantage of being factual.



And while I'm highlighting the difference between a soundbite and the facts...

With all the drama around Trump’s executive order, some of you may have missed another momentous decision he made this weekend, adding the loathsome Steven Bannon to the National Security Council while dropping the director of national intelligence and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff from the group.

It’s one thing for those of us arguing on an Internet forum to have incomplete information or knowledge, filtered through news organizations with their own editorial biases. It’s something else entirely for our President – who we already know gets most of his information from TV news shows – to exclude the head of the National Intelligence Community and the head of our military from his NSC. And to instead put in their place a political operative who made his reputation pedaling vitriol and lies.

The President has shown himself to be an incurious intellectual lightweight, and now he has decided that it’s better to have Breitbart than our intelligence services and our military at the table when they talk about our nation’s security. This scares the crap out of me.

[colker]

And how does M Streep or Madonna become hollywood phonies while a guy who was a host of reality shows and his sidekick, an ex movie producer and head of a web agit prop, become "real people"?
Why is everybody falling for an inverted truth? Wake up.

[Corso]

You are, simply, wrong.

Boston Housing Authority receives funding from both the Federal and State governments. Federal funding cannot be spent on people who are not citizens or legal residents of the US. State funding does not have the restriction. BHA only requires applicants for Federally-funded housing to provide documentation of citizenship/legal residency. BHA does not ask the question of applicants to State-funded housing. BHA offers housing to applicants based on a combination of their application date (the longer you wait, the higher your relative ranking) and a point system. Among the attributes that earn applicants points is Veteran’s status. So everything else being equal, a Veteran (or a member of Veteran’s family) is always ranked higher than a non-Veteran.

Not quite the soundbite that you posted, but my explanation has the advantage of being factual.

I most respectfully, disagree that I am wrong. I’m glad the Boston vet’s are not displaced, and won’t argue your facts.

But, when did I say I live in Boston? I've worked in Boston for over 30 years, but haven’t lived there in quite some time.

Although I have done volunteer work for Boston’s homeless vet organization.

I am a friend of the person who RUNS public housing where I live (yes, in MA). My information is first hand. The information has been the same for several years now. It’s the first thing I bring up when I’m with him. He has nothing to gain by lying to me, and I had nothing to gain by lying here.
Veterans will be (and has in fact been) placed behind an “assumed non-english speaking un-documented” person with a child. And he will lose his job if he asked if they are a citizen, green card, visa ID, etc”, as the “assumed non-english speaking un-documented”’s interpreter will report him to the state if he does so. Fact.

The classroom overcrowding and Police situations I mentioned: also facts.

As far as the other: I agree Bannon is bad for the administration.

But then again, I found Eric Holder just horrible at doing his job. And he had it 5 and a half years. I’d be surprised if Bannon doesn’t “resign” within 6 months.

[vertical_doug]

But then again, I found Eric Holder just horrible at doing his job. And he had it 5 and a half years. I’d be surprised if Bannon doesn’t “resign” within 6 months.

Unless Gandalf shows up, I don't see anyone casting WormTongue down the White House steps in the next 6 mo.

[davids]

I most respectfully, disagree that I am wrong. I’m glad the Boston vet’s are not displaced, and won’t argue your facts.

But, when did I say I live in Boston? I've worked in Boston for over 30 years, but haven’t lived there in quite some time.

Although I have done volunteer work for Boston’s homeless vet organization.

I am a friend of the person who RUNS public housing where I live (yes, in MA). My information is first hand. The information has been the same for several years now. It’s the first thing I bring up when I’m with him. He has nothing to gain by lying to me, and I had nothing to gain by lying here.
Veterans will be (and has in fact been) placed behind an “assumed non-english speaking un-documented” person with a child. And he will lose his job if he asked if they are a citizen, green card, visa ID, etc”, as the “assumed non-english speaking un-documented”’s interpreter will report him to the state if he does so. Fact.

Apologies! I made an assumption and, well, you know that cliche...