Caroline Kennedy --- 2020

[Saab2000]

There are legitimate conservative publications I would read long before I would put much credence in anything published in the Washington Times.

Regarding "The Wall", it's one thing to believe in enforcement of existing laws and having orderly immigration and border control. It's another to advocate for the construction of a multi-billion dollar physical wall, something upon which the current president campaigned. I support orderly, lawful borders. I'm against these tariff and tax proposals and the rhetoric to make Mexico pay for it. What a crock.

But yes, I do believe in orderly border enforcement. It gets very complicated when birthright citizenship and proclamations about 'family values' and deporting parents of children who are US citizens by birth. I think both sides need to calm down and have an adult conversation about it. That ain't gonna happen unfortunately.

[davids]

Is it plausible that non-citizen votes account for the entire margin of Trump's popular vote loss to Clinton? | Jesse Richman

this is a link to Jesse Richman's blog at ODU and what he really says. The article in the Times is close to fake news.

Just for disclosure purposes, The Washington Times was bought by Reverend Moon of Unification Church. It also has links to Russian Kommersant. So read it with a grain of salt.

Thanks for digging deeper. And yeah. The Washington Times...



And to my earlier point, today's column from Shirley Leung (the very best reason to read the Boston Globe).

[Corso]

I did not know the Washington Times background, thank you. It’s hard to tell who’s who these days…

On the Mexico topic, How about this (is USA Today ok?):

U.S. provides aid worth $32 million a year to Mexico; experts say yanking it could hurt

We already give (and have for over 40 years) Mexico millions a year in aid. If I were the president of Mexico, I wouldn’t punch the gift-horse in the mouth.

To expand a bit, ever since I was a kid, it’s bugged me that we give billions in aid to others worldwide, when we have poverty and homeless here in our country.

Politics aside, don’t we have a national duty to take care of our own? Or is it impossible to divorce world politics from helping out own?

So when I hear Trump say “America First”, it does resonate with me, as it’s not a new thought, it’s been with me from the time I got off training wheels.

[spopepro]

Politics aside, don’t we have a national duty to take care of our own? Or is it impossible to divorce world politics from helping out own?

So when I hear Trump say “America First”, it does resonate with me, as it’s not a new thought, it’s been with me from the time I got off training wheels.

Yes, because what you are saying here isn't America first (leaving aside the less savory implications of that exact phrase), it's "America Only".

The peace and prosperity of the world has be very, very good for our prosperity. Turmoil, uncertainty, and desperation decimate economies and quality of life way beyond anyone's individual boarders. The UN is a great example. Some ask why we pay 22% of the budget. I think that when we have 27% of the UN members combined GDP, that's a bargain, and a great investment. And that's *aside* from just the moral, doing the right thing, feelings.

[Cookietruck]

I did not know the Washington Times background, thank you. It’s hard to tell who’s who these days…

On the Mexico topic, How about this (is USA Today ok?):

U.S. provides aid worth $32 million a year to Mexico; experts say yanking it could hurt

We already give (and have for over 40 years) Mexico millions a year in aid. If I were the president of Mexico, I wouldn’t punch the gift-horse in the mouth.

To expand a bit, ever since I was a kid, it’s bugged me that we give billions in aid to others worldwide, when we have poverty and homeless here in our country.

Politics aside, don’t we have a national duty to take care of our own? Or is it impossible to divorce world politics from helping out own?

So when I hear Trump say “America First”, it does resonate with me, as it’s not a new thought, it’s been with me from the time I got off training wheels.

mexico will easily make up 32 million in some other fashion. the cars and machinery coming to the US from mexico isn't going to just stop.
https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c2010.html

in the end the consumer will end up paying no matter what. whether trump can spin it as "making mexico pay for the wall in a complicated form" will be interesting.

you talk about helping the homeless, i think ~$16billion would be much better spent helping people in the US in need instead of putting up a ridiculous wall.
but...the republicans don't have the best record in helping the needy. funny they aren't so fiscally conservative all of the sudden either...

[vertical_doug]

I did not know the Washington Times background, thank you. It’s hard to tell who’s who these days…

On the Mexico topic, How about this (is USA Today ok?):

U.S. provides aid worth $32 million a year to Mexico; experts say yanking it could hurt

We already give (and have for over 40 years) Mexico millions a year in aid. If I were the president of Mexico, I wouldn’t punch the gift-horse in the mouth.

To expand a bit, ever since I was a kid, it’s bugged me that we give billions in aid to others worldwide, when we have poverty and homeless here in our country.

Politics aside, don’t we have a national duty to take care of our own? Or is it impossible to divorce world politics from helping out own?

So when I hear Trump say “America First”, it does resonate with me, as it’s not a new thought, it’s been with me from the time I got off training wheels.

Trade with Mexico in just goods was around 531b in 2015 ignoring FDI and services. That is 295b imported from mexico. 236b export to mexico by United States. At 20% tariff, 32 million is 5 hours of tariffs on exports to the united states.

If you want to balance the trade deficit, just ban car sales to and from Mexico. United States imports 72b of cars from Mexico, Mexico imports 22b in cars from US. The 50 billion difference is almost the entire deficit. Funny thing is all cars produced in Mexico are international brands, GM, Ford, Chrysler, Acura, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes and so on and so on. . . .
.

SO, a 20% tariff will generate 59b in revenue the first year, so do we just install the tariff for 3 mo to pay for the wall than abolish it?

[Corso]

And to my earlier point, today's column from Shirley Leung (the very best reason to read the Boston Globe).

Shirley is so far to the left she couldn’t see the right if it snuck up and pulled off her “knit” hat. Yes, I read her column. Each time, I wonder why.
Shirley neglected to mention pro-life women were not welcome at the march. Didn’t mention contacting any Republican women’s groups in the state either. (yes a single bi-parison group was in there for the minimum)...

C’mom David, the Globe isn’t what I’d call un-biased.

It’s Friday, and in my office several co-workers have been bashing Trump all over the place…I’m tired. How 'bout those Pats?

[j44ke]

BTW, Caroline Kennedy has gone on record saying that she is not interested. That's been her position for years, and the one time she weakened on that stand, she got completely tangled up in a feud between Gov. David Paterson of NY and (then) Atty. Gen. Andrew Cuomo (ex-husband of Kerry Kennedy so lot's of baggage) over who would be anointed by the Dems to run for Hillary Clinton seat in the Senate, and Cuomo's cronies released a dossier that made assertions about her voting and financial records, torpedoing her campaign before it even started. As long as Cuomo is around, I don't think Kennedy will want anything to do with elected positions. Andrew Cuomo is a real piece of work.

[davids]

To expand a bit, ever since I was a kid, it’s bugged me that we give billions in aid to others worldwide, when we have poverty and homeless here in our country.

Politics aside, don’t we have a national duty to take care of our own? Or is it impossible to divorce world politics from helping out own?

So when I hear Trump say “America First”, it does resonate with me, as it’s not a new thought, it’s been with me from the time I got off training wheels.

I guess my answer would be yes. And yes.

I think of it this way: I pay my mortgage, buy my groceries, put gas in my cars. And I buy myself a nice bike every once in a while, and take a vacation in Hawaii or Alaska. And I give money to my synagogue, my daughter's alma mater, and about a dozen different charities. I work 40-ish hours a week. I spend another couple hours volunteering, on average.

I take care of myself. I take care of those I'm close to. I take care of others (and other causes) that need my support. Giving? Maybe part of it is enlightened self-interest. But a bigger part of it is spending on what I value, in the most altruistic sense.

I think our nation should do that too, take care of the dispossessed and broken both inside our borders and outside.

Not that I agree with all of our government's decisions about where and how to spend our money! But hey, that's a representative democracy.

I found this website, with a deeper dive into foreign aid. Here's Mexico, and it's pretty interesting: Mexico Foreign Aid | U.S. Government Grants and Loans I can't vouch for the accuracy, but it seems non-partisan.

[vertical_doug]

I guess my answer would be yes. And yes.

I think of it this way: I pay my mortgage, buy my groceries, put gas in my cars. And I buy myself a nice bike every once in a while, and take a vacation in Hawaii or Alaska. And I give money to my synagogue, my daughter's alma mater, and about a dozen different charities. I work 40-ish hours a week. I spend another couple hours volunteering, on average.

I take care of myself. I take care of those I'm close to. I take care of others (and other causes) that need my support. Giving? Maybe part of it is enlightened self-interest. But a bigger part of it is spending on what I value, in the most altruistic sense.

I think our nation should do that too, take care of the dispossessed and broken both inside our borders and outside.

Not that I agree with all of our government's decisions about where and how to spend our money! But hey, that's a representative democracy.

I found this website, with a deeper dive into foreign aid. Here's Mexico, and it's pretty interesting: Mexico Foreign Aid | U.S. Government Grants and Loans I can't vouch for the accuracy, but it seems non-partisan.

and 12bln per year to Afghanistan is good value for moving rocks around.

[davids]

Shirley is so far to the left she couldn’t see the right if it snuck up and pulled off her “knit” hat. Yes, I read her column. Each time, I wonder why.
Shirley neglected to mention pro-life women were not welcome at the march. Didn’t mention contacting any Republican women’s groups in the state either. (yes a single bi-parison group was in there for the minimum)...

C’mom David, the Globe isn’t what I’d call un-biased.

It’s Friday, and in my office several co-workers have been bashing Trump all over the place…I’m tired. How 'bout those Pats?

I wasn't propping Leung as "news" - She's a columnist, duh! And it's funny you see her as a lefty. She's writing about business most of the time - how could she be against capitalism and commerce?

Anyways. The piece I linked is definitely, completely an opinion. I just happened to think it was a pretty damn great opinion. Yours may differ!


Now to stir things up: Professional football? Whatever. (When the Pats win I feel happy for the guy on my staff who's been a season ticketholder forever. He has a cartoon on his wall from the early 90s showing a guy getting up at a 12-step meeting and saying, "My name is Ernie. And I'm a Pats fan...")

[Matthew J]

I did not know the Washington Times background, thank you. It’s hard to tell who’s who these days…

On the Mexico topic, How about this (is USA Today ok?):

U.S. provides aid worth $32 million a year to Mexico; experts say yanking it could hurt

We already give (and have for over 40 years) Mexico millions a year in aid. If I were the president of Mexico, I wouldn’t punch the gift-horse in the mouth.

To expand a bit, ever since I was a kid, it’s bugged me that we give billions in aid to others worldwide, when we have poverty and homeless here in our country.

Did you read the article or just link it?

US aid to Mexico is primarily to support Mexican law enforcement to interdict drugs and other illegal products smuggled from (often through) Mexico to the United States. Unless you think the wall is going to stop all of the illegal trade (airplanes?boats?submarines?hidden in legal trade?) cutting off the aid hurts the US as much or more than Mexico.

[colker]

Colker, I don’t believe you answered my earlier questions about immigration and social policies in your country. Do you have open borders?

If you feel so strongly about our President, you have 4 years to re-locate to the United States (legally), become a citizen and vote in the next presidential election.

My understanding of the WALL is not just a physical wall, but enforcing CURRENT LAWS and stronger deportation of proven criminals who are here illegally. Yes, that include the “sanctuary city” situation.

Yes i have answered to you already... the US has no duty to mexicans neither treat them as US citizens.
Your next argument .. Let´s see.. I have strong family ties in Mexico and a wall is an offence to mexicans. Trump cannot tackle the illegal immigration issue with a smart move so he builds a wall.
We live in a world where isolated actions have consequences on the entire population of the planet. If the US hostilizes Mexico and central america, it ends up affecting me so it is my business to call him an idiot.

[colker]

To expand a bit, ever since I was a kid, it’s bugged me that we give billions in aid to others worldwide, when we have poverty and homeless here in our country.

Politics aside, don’t we have a national duty to take care of our own? Or is it impossible to divorce world politics from helping out own?

So when I hear Trump say “America First”, it does resonate with me, as it’s not a new thought, it’s been with me from the time I got off training wheels.

Really? It bugs you that the US is doing charity when it could give money to americans.. sorry to burst your bubble but the US is taking care of it´s power on global economy, taking care of it´s territories and influence. It´s charity.. but it´s foreign policy and keeping markets open for american companies and trade.
Trump told you this BS and you believed him: that he would take care of America first and cut aids to people you don´t know. Well, guess what.. China and Russia will step in and take those territories. The US are about to reduce it´s influence and lose markets. It will tax goods so you will be paying more for what you like to buy.
Globaloization created a world where everything is much cheaper for everybody. That´s how you buy so much bike stuff. Trump promises to step out of globalized multilateral trade pacts.
Otoh i believe reducing consummerism is good: we should all consume less.

[colker]

mexico will easily make up 32 million in some other fashion. the cars and machinery coming to the US from mexico isn't going to just stop.
https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c2010.html

in the end the consumer will end up paying no matter what. whether trump can spin it as "making mexico pay for the wall in a complicated form" will be interesting.

you talk about helping the homeless, i think ~$16billion would be much better spent helping people in the US in need instead of putting up a ridiculous wall.
but...the republicans don't have the best record in helping the needy. funny they aren't so fiscally conservative all of the sudden either...

Exactly: in the end all his non sense will end up making americans poorer while blaming everybody: the press, mexicans, muslims, women, black, gay. Great Success.

[guido]

SO, a 20% tariff will generate 59b in revenue the first year, so do we just install the tariff for 3 mo to pay for the wall than abolish it?

Who do you think pays if there is a tariff placed on Mexican goods? It is not Mexico. It is Americans, and since the goods we are talking about are not luxury goods it hits working class folks the hardest.

So how is this going to help again?

[sonicw]

Why is this thread still alive?

We already give (and have for over 40 years) Mexico millions a year in aid. If I were the president of Mexico, I wouldn’t punch the gift-horse in the mouth.

To expand a bit, ever since I was a kid, it’s bugged me that we give billions in aid to others worldwide, when we have poverty and homeless here in our country.

I agree with your sentiment. It's unreasonable to give someone money without ensuring both sides are upholding the agreement for why the money was given. Does giving aid to Mexico have any benefit to the US? Here are two things to consider that don't have to do with trade:

- drugs: the "war on drugs" has been far bloodier and costlier to Mexico than to the US, with kidnappings, murders, and corruption rampant. MX could easily stop enforcing policies of coordinating with the US, allowing tunnels to be dug and restricting access to the DEA. In return we'd get cheaper drugs and increased addiction/overdoses

- immigration: after ICE rounds up and detains immigrants, they are processed and often bussed to the border. It's assumed they're Mexican but many are also Central American-- if they're not carrying papers we can't know. Mexico accepts them regardless, but if they demanded proof this country would be stuck with a lot of people in detainment centers, a cost that could easily exceed $32M

Castaneda Reminds The U.S. Of The Benefits Of A Friendly Southern Neighbor : NPR

[guido]

Politics aside, don’t we have a national duty to take care of our own? Or is it impossible to divorce world politics from helping out own?

As if the republicans really had any interest in helping out "our own"? How about stop blocking the $15.00 minimum wage? How about not slashing the social safety net? How about not gutting environmental regulations? How about not gutting OSHA regulations?

America first, which America did you have in mind? From his actions it is going to be a very small segment of the country that gets any benefit at all...

[Corso]

Colker: Exactly HOW should my country handle the illegal immigration crisis we’re in? Your calling our President lot’s of names, and accusing him of not having a “smart” plan, I’d love to hear your intelligent thoughts.

The floor is yours my friend:

[colker]

Why is this thread still alive?



I agree with your sentiment. It's unreasonable to give someone money without ensuring both sides are upholding the agreement for why the money was given. Does giving aid to Mexico have any benefit to the US? Here are two things to consider that don't have to do with trade:

- drugs: the "war on drugs" has been far bloodier and costlier to Mexico than to the US, with kidnappings, murders, and corruption rampant. MX could easily stop enforcing policies of coordinating with the US, allowing tunnels to be dug and restricting access to the DEA. In return we'd get cheaper drugs and increased addiction/overdoses

- immigration: after ICE rounds up and detains immigrants, they are processed and often bussed to the border. It's assumed they're Mexican but many are also Central American-- if they're not carrying papers we can't know. Mexico accepts them regardless, but if they demanded proof this country would be stuck with a lot of people in detainment centers, a cost that could easily exceed $32M

Castaneda Reminds The U.S. Of The Benefits Of A Friendly Southern Neighbor : NPR

Mexico will far less tense if the feds stop harassing the cartels on the US behalf. Let them roll along since it´s the US drug market they are serving.
Mexico has already signaled it will not cooperate and let everyone from central america move towards the US frontier. Will the wall only kee them down? Will the wall contain the cartels?
Trump may end up escalating his rhetoric towards comercial war, immigration war, drug war. Bannon´s tactics work wonders under such circumstance.