Moto equivalent of a "Campy vs Shimano" question

[Mabouya]

This topic (but not this specific question) has been beaten to death on moto forums, so I don't dare ask it there, but it's probably safe here:

I don't have one yet, but hopefully in the near future I will be purchasing a new motorcycle to replace the Ninja 300 I bought used as a newbie's bike. For that last 6 months or so the Yamaha XSR900 has been at the top of my list of options.

Regarding engine break-in, the XSR900 owner's manual says what you see in the quote below.

>>>> In this context, what do you think the term "prolonged operation" means? <<<<

More than 5 seconds? 10 seconds? 30 seconds? 1 minute? 5 minutes? (red line is 11250 rpm)

I have no way of knowing what they're thinking. Do you?

TIA

0-1000 km Avoid prolonged operation above 5600 rpm
1000 km Change oil and filter
1000-1600 km Avoid prolonged operation above 6800 rpm

> 1600 km Knock yourself out. (my words)

[Dave Thompson]

As a former Yamaha dealer I'll say two things.

1st; Yamaha means continuous operation above those RPMs, vary the speeds up and down the scale, which usually happens with normal daily riding. They want the internal temps to vary while the parts mate. They're particularly interested in having good piston/ring/cylinder harmony. Go out, drive it in a normal way, get coffee, drive to a friends house, enjoy the 1000k before you put the hammer down.

2nd, and I apologize Louis, I don't think I've ever seen something on two wheels quite that ugly.

[Mabouya]

2nd, and I apologize Louis, I don't think I've ever seen something on two wheels quite that ugly.

So, Dave, back in the day you rode the Honda Pacific Coast? ;)

The one thing that I will admit isn't great on the XSR is the little "boxes" just above the top of the radiator. And I'm not in love with the tail light (easy enough to fix). Other than that, it's a pretty cool bike on a number of different levels. (And probably way more TQ than I need.)

[Mabouya]

1st; Yamaha means continuous operation above those RPMs, vary the speeds up and down the scale, which usually happens with normal daily riding. They want the internal temps to vary while the parts mate. They're particularly interested in having good piston/ring/cylinder harmony. Go out, drive it in a normal way, get coffee, drive to a friends house, enjoy the 1000k before you put the hammer down.

Let's say I want to ride to a buddy's house to show off the new moto, and the simplest way to get there involves about 20 minutes on the highway, with a speed limit of 60 mph and traffic flowing at about 65-70 mph. I don't know what RPM that will correspond to in 6th gear, but I'm sure that it will be above 5600 rpm.

Does that mean that 1) I can do the 20 minutes above 5600 rpm, or 2) I should find an alternate route to his house?

(I can think of other options, like varying my speed on the highway, but riding a moto at 45 mph in the right lane is potentially dangerous.)

[jackattack]

65-70 mph. I don't know what RPM that will correspond to in 6th gear, but I'm sure that it will be above 5600 rpm.

Redline of 11250? I bet it's not. Enjoy the ride!

[Jonathan]

I like it.

I'd be surprised if 70mph in top gear is anywhere near 5600.

[pdxmech13]

Don't over think the "break in" process.

That bike rides great and has a few features not on the FZ-09. Super light clutch pull, awesome torque and overall quality bike for the price.

70mph is about 5K in 6th.

[Mabouya]

Don't over think the "break in" process.

70mph is about 5K in 6th.

I agree on the first count - if it were that easy to mess up there would be a ton of motorcycles out there with toasted engines.

I haven't had a chance to look at the gear ratios yet, but if 70 mph is indeed 5000 rpm in 6th gear, then I agree that it should be relatively easy to follow the Yamaha rules - as long as I don't take it out to the Bonneville Salt Flats everything should be fine.

Thanks for the help, guys.

[Dave Thompson]

So, Dave, back in the day you rode the Honda Pacific Coast.;)

Hah, never had/rode a Pacific Coast. My bike tastes back in the day were more euro-centric. My two favorite bikes were a Dunstall Norton and a Rickman Honda 750 even though I was a Yamaha dealer. When I relocated from Hawaii to California in the early 70s I started to spend several weeks a year in England looking for cafe racer stuff to ship back and build things up.

The below images aren't of my bikes but mine looked identical to the pics.

[Mabouya]

My bike tastes back in the day were more euro-centric.

For a while I was considering a Ducati 821, but decided that over the long haul the Yamaha would be a better bike.

[Mabouya]

I've also thought about a Moto Guzzi (this one's the V9 Bobber) and I love the look, but again, the Yamaha's probably a better machine.

[christian]

Prolonged duration means hours on end. They want you to run the engine at various revs. You'll be fine. That is a cool bike.

[Mabouya]

According to these guys: Specs of 216 Yamaha XSR9

Top speed at redline in 6th gear is 169 mph. Since redline is 11,250 rpm that works out to:

( 5600 / 11250 ) x 169 mph = 84.1 mph

That means that unless I'm riding it on the Autobahn or out west in the US, I should have no problems on the highway during the break-in period.

BTW, assuming the same rpm limit, the similar calculation for my Ninja 300 would be: 5600 / 13000 x 120 mph = 52 mph, and similarly, 70 mph corresponds to 7583 rpm, which is why I thought the 5600 rpm limit might be an issue on the Yamaha. Obviously, due to power limitations, the Ninja spends a lot more time at the upper revs compared to what the Yamaha would need.

[Christian Fox]

The theory on varying revs is that if a new motor is held at constant rpms during break-in, the ring will seat in such a way as you'll only get optimal compression at that rpm. I don't know if that is really true. The world of engine building is full of wive's tales and mumbo jumbo. It also depends on the cylinder. On the 2-stroke engines I build, if it has a nikasil plated cylinder, I don't really bother to break in the motor. I have never seen any performance variation between a properly broken in motor vs. an emergency ring replacement/no break-in situation. For cast iron bores, a proper break-in is more important. This is for racing stuff though, where .2 of a hp makes a big difference. For non-racing applications, I wouldn't agonize over the break-in.

[jclay]

Hah, never had/rode a Pacific Coast. My bike tastes back in the day were more euro-centric. My two favorite bikes were a Dunstall Norton and a Rickman Honda 750 even though I was a Yamaha dealer. When I relocated from Hawaii to California in the early 70s I started to spend several weeks a year in England looking for cafe racer stuff to ship back and build things up.

The below images aren't of my bikes but mine looked identical to the pics.

You have good taste in scooters.

Whats up with the enormous apparent rear wheel travel on road iron in recent times? I mean, my MX racers (early/mid '70s) didn't have half that. Now admittedly 4" of rear wheel travel was precious little for hammering around in the dirt, and when 6" became available it was wonderful; but we were launching those things and slamming into everything! Much road iron now appears to have far more travel than I'd have thought useful for road use and I expect it elevates the CG as well. I am puzzled.

[PaMtbRider]

20 minutes on the highway is a non issue. As others have said, just ride the bike. I've had over 20 new motorcycles and the only one that ever used oil I babied during break in and strictly followed manufacturer recommendation. Don't beat it from mile 0 but don't get overly concerned about rpm after you have 20+ miles on it.

[Pinned]

I've always broken in every motorized vehicle I've owned quickly - the rings are seated and sealed well before the specified "break in" period that any manufacturer gives anyways. After a couple of heat cycles and a few miles running the engine through its paces (this includes hard acceleration) I change the oil and drive it like normal. Never had an issue with blow-by in turbo vehicles, nor a compression problem in NA ones. I personally think there are more issues with a gradual break in, where the rings never fully or effectively seat, than with a fast one.

[deboat]

As someone who writes this stuff for motobike companies. I am so sorry for the way it reads! The real truth is:
On modern Jap engines the main Thing that requires bending in is the gears. The rings and Pistons on that Yamaha are already ready to go.
Actually the top end of that engine Needs more running in than the Pistons do. But since a new bike has even before you sit on it, had at least one engine run on an engine dyno, then at least one motorcycle dyno run too. Also the mechanic who did the predelivery should have gone for a short ride.
TIPS:
Take the new machine go through its' tempurature cycle a few times.
Always Change your oil and oil filter after the first 1000km. This is super important!!! It is normal that the running in oil is Mineral based, then Change to a fortitied oil or a full synthetic oil. Whatever the manufacturer recommends..... :)

So if you want the Yamaha then I quess you use Shimano.
The ducati would be my style but I use Campy.
Motoguzi Er...... No way. Like usings Sachs.

The Yamy is a good bike. Last year I only did about five laps around Spa but thought it could be a good arounder.

[Mabouya]

So if you want the Yamaha then I quess you use Shimano.
The ducati would be my style but I use Campy.
Motoguzi Er...... No way. Like usings Sachs.

For now I have enough Italian hardware in the garage ('73 Alfa GTV) so I don't think having a Yamaha as "daily rider" is too much of a sacrilege. Maybe when I have more space for motos and can have more than one I might get an Italian moto...

[pdxmech13]

I like the new Air Cooled Monster that just came out..............

Ducati Monster 797 - The Air-Cooled Monster Returns

Little less in terms of features than a 821 but on par with that XSR in Price.