Keeping sharps sharp - a foray into knife-sharpening

[Octave]

As per TT's infinite wisdom: voila, a thread about knife sharpening.

What do you all use? How often? Hits and misses along the way?

Personally, my household keeps the knife game simple: 1 Shun Usuba, 1 Shun Duba, a New West Knifeworks Santoku and an Opinel paring knife. Minor redundancy but it's knife if you've got two people working.

For sharpening, we exclusively use Japanese waterstones. We have two, one of which is double-sided. The first is an ara-to (estimated around 750 grit), while the second is a double-sided naka-to (!4000 grit) and shiage-to (~10000 grit). Every 3 months all of the knives get the full treatment. It takes about 15 minutes per knife, so I tend to throw on a good podcast or at least make sure someone is around for entertaining company, as it's quite repetitive work..

In the past I've owned synthetic stones and an electric sharpener, and neither got the job done as well as waterstones. They're simple to use, hard to f* up and last ages. We've had ours for 3 years now (so, about 12 rounds of 4-5 knives...) and they're not even 10% worn.

For in between the proper sharpening sessions, we keep a honing steel around that's used probably once a week per knife.

[Too Tall]

Our knives are old school and reudndant. Mostly high carbon.
Currently, I'm using a large two sided DMT diamond plate for shaping and a medium and soft Arkansas stone for finishing. I'm never 100% happy and have been leaning two faster cutting stones.
Same deal for pocket knives except I do like how fast the DMT plate fixes pocket knives that are abused.

[jdp211]

Just (yesterday) received the Misen chef's knife and sharpening stone I Kickstartered some time ago. I've got a honing steel that sees use regularly and hopefully I'll be using the knife enough to warrant honing (haha) my skills on the stone

[Noteddy]

Also using some very fine diamond plates for heavy work. Best discovery a number of years ago is a leather stropping belt on the low-speed belt sander. A touch of compound on the belt and it will put a mirror finished edge on anything in a minute or two.

It is possible to make the edge so smooth that it isn't durable, but if it is good hard steel this is a revelation.

1" X 3" Leather Belt | Klingspor's Woodworking Shop

[davids]

My wife just unboxed a Chef's Choice 15 Trizor XV as we set up the new kitchen.

She seemed pretty thrilled with the first sharpenings. No podcasts necessary.

Chefs-Choice-Trizor-XV.jpg

[dgaddis]

My wife just unboxed a Chef's Choice 15 Trizor XV as we set up the new kitchen.

She seemed pretty thrilled with the first sharpenings. No podcasts necessary.

I've got something similar (tho much less expensive) coming in the mail this week, we went with this one: Amazon.com: Presto 881 Professional Electric Knife Sharpener: Kitchen & Dining

We've got some Pamper Chef knives we got as a wedding gift 7yrs ago, they're all in bad need of sharpening, most have chipped edges on the blades. They've never been sharpened, so I'm looking forward to (hopefully) getting a good edge back on them.

[robp]

Been buying stones from Jon at Japaneseknifeimports for years. He's extremely knowledgeable and is happy to give advices based on what you will be sharpening, your experience, how in depth you want to go etc. highly recommended giving him a call.
They also have a great YouTube channel with ton of sharpening videos
DMT diamond plate for pocket knives

[Gattonero]

I use the back of a tea mug for my SAK's

[caleb]

Our knives are old school and reudndant. Mostly high carbon.
Currently, I'm using a large two sided DMT diamond plate for shaping and a medium and soft Arkansas stone for finishing. I'm never 100% happy and have been leaning two faster cutting stones.
Same deal for pocket knives except I do like how fast the DMT plate fixes pocket knives that are abused.

I recently ordered up one of the handheld DMT course/fine foldable deals to go in the canoe maintenance kit for when things that should have gotten sharpened before we left didn't.

For getting the job done quick and dirty, it's great. Thirty seconds with it and a kitchen knife will go from dull-dull to draw cutting paper. It's currently living in the kitchen where I've been using it to make sure all of our knives will cut the season's tomatoes.

For anyone wanting to get their knives quickly into the sort of shape that 99% of the population would call "very sharp," I think the DMT handheld is a pretty good option.

[skouri1]

How important is the cutting board in the equation ? I bought a chefs choice manual sharpener but maybe 4 months later I needed to re sharpen... I feel like that's too soon . Could the plastic board I've got just be ruining things ? Is endgrain all it's cracked up to be ?

[Octave]

How important is the cutting board in the equation ? I bought a chefs choice manual sharpener but maybe 4 months later I needed to re sharpen... I feel like that's too soon . Could the plastic board I've got just be ruining things ? Is endgrain all it's cracked up to be ?

The board makes some difference and yes, endgrain is pretty tops, but honestly 4 months is not that short of a time for knives to need a resharpening depending on the frequency and what you're cutting. So... what are you cutting and how often? Personally, as I said that the beginning of this thread, I resharpen every 3 months. Yesterday was pretty average and one knife went through: 2 apples, 1 onion, 1 leek, 4 cloves of garlic, 1 sweet potato, 2 zucchini and a bunch of asparagus. That every day for 3 months is plenty to necessitate a sharpening.

[tbonefitz]

My dad used the Spyderco sharpener for years. I finally broke down and got one for myself. Two knives, nothing fancy, Henkels classics, and now I can shave with them. Check out the Spyderco system if you're into simple and effective.

[mzilliox]

Please dont put knives in a dishwasher. Wash and dry them immediately after use...

[Bobonli]

Please dont put knives in a dishwasher. Wash and dry them immediately after use...

It's a challenge to obtain and maintain compliance from my family on this. They reflexively put everything in the dishwasher, even things that say "Not dishwasher safe!"
I have a right mind to lock up or hide some of the knives.
I can't blame them, it's genetic. A couple of summers ago I was visiting the in-laws and watched my father in law take a chefs knife into the garage and cut up cardboard boxes and plastic milk containers so they would fit in the recycling bin. And then promptly return the knife to the kitchen drawer.

[dgaddis]

It's a challenge to obtain and maintain compliance from my family on this. They reflexively put everything in the dishwasher, even things that say "Not dishwasher safe!"
I have a right mind to lock up or hide some of the knives.
I can't blame them, it's genetic. A couple of summers ago I was visiting the in-laws and watched my father in law take a chefs knife into the garage and cut up cardboard boxes and plastic milk containers so they would fit in the recycling bin. And then promptly return the knife to the kitchen drawer.

Thankfully my wife knows not to put knives in the dishwasher. I do most of the chopping tho, so she doesn't handle them often.

The last bit reminds me of a story about my father in law, a very stereotypical small town southern man. He lives outside of town, because 'the city' is too busy. Hunts, fishes, always drove a truck, usually carries more than one knife, loves UGA football, and when buying anything, if camo is an option, that's what he gets. His recliner is camo. His favorite hat is a camo Dawgs hat, obviously. He calls the internet "the email". Strangely, the man LOVES greeting cards. Last spring he rescued a baby bird. He fed it a mix of Ensure and cat food he combined in a blender. It worked tho, bird grew up, and he let it go.

Anyhow. One time we were visiting. Standing around in the yard, we saw a big black grasshopper, like 3" long. I'd never seen one, it's a south GA thing apparently, they're called Georgia Thumpers. My MIL was having a war with them, they were eating all her flowers. So he stepped on it, then, for reasons I can't begin to imagine or explain, he cut it's head off with his pocket knife.

45 minutes later, we're at Longhorn, he says "this steak knife is too dull!" pulls out the same pocket knife he just used to decapitate the bug, and uses it to cut up his steak.

He's a character!

[MikeS]

As per TT's infinite wisdom: voila, a thread about knife sharpening.

What do you all use? How often? Hits and misses along the way?

Personally, my household keeps the knife game simple: 1 Shun Usuba, 1 Shun Duba, a New West Knifeworks Santoku and an Opinel paring knife. Minor redundancy but it's knife if you've got two people working.

For sharpening, we exclusively use Japanese waterstones. We have two, one of which is double-sided. The first is an ara-to (estimated around 750 grit), while the second is a double-sided naka-to (!4000 grit) and shiage-to (~10000 grit). Every 3 months all of the knives get the full treatment. It takes about 15 minutes per knife, so I tend to throw on a good podcast or at least make sure someone is around for entertaining company, as it's quite repetitive work..

In the past I've owned synthetic stones and an electric sharpener, and neither got the job done as well as waterstones. They're simple to use, hard to f* up and last ages. We've had ours for 3 years now (so, about 12 rounds of 4-5 knives...) and they're not even 10% worn.

For in between the proper sharpening sessions, we keep a honing steel around that's used probably once a week per knife.

My goto is a Moritaka Gyuto 270mm, and I maintain it with a JNS 1000/8000, (<1000, if there is any significant material to remove first)

[Gattonero]

What do you guys think about dual-side Arkansas stone?
I've a friend going to US in a few weeks and I may just pull the trigger on this, the brand seems one to be trusted

(40 bucks on Amazon)

[11.4]

What do you guys think about dual-side Arkansas stone?
I've a friend going to US in a few weeks and I may just pull the trigger on this, the brand seems one to be trusted

(40 bucks on Amazon)

In contrast to Japanese artificial stones, American Arkansas stones are cut right from the rock. The original source, with the best flint veins in the hills of Arkansas, was Norton, and they still have most of the best mines and the best stones. Unfortunately, they can be over $100 for a high quality stone, but it's like nothing else. Even theirs are not as good as they used to be -- I have some from four decades ago when they were very even in quality and literally translucent. Today they can have streaks of impurities and generally more contamination from other stone, so that they aren't quite the same stones.

Those comments apply to the hardest stones. The best were, and still are, specifically black hard Arkansas. Anything you see that isn't labeled as all three will be a softer, less hard, less fine alternative. It can still be a good stone but not that superfine stone for the perfect final edge.

The market is currently full of stones that are either composite Arkansas (similar to Japanese stones, made from ground-up Arkansas stone in a resin matrix) or poorer quality stone. I've had some that I could literally carve with a kitchen knife, others that would notch if you simply hit them at the wrong angle with a knife, and some that either lost their flatness quickly or were soft enough or coarse enough to not deserve the name. Recently I bought a collection of Preyda stones and found them useless. I'd almost say that if you want the real stone that justified the price, you'd have to pay the price -- an 8x2 stone, even only half an inch thick, should run north of $100. Smaller pocket knife stones (4x2 or equivalent size) should run around $70 or so. It should feel like glass that has been very lightly etched.

One step back from the black hard Arkansas is the white hard Arkansas. It should be a lot less expensive and should be good for most purposes. Just be sure it doesn't have weak veins in it because they will quickly notch. And it should still feel like frosted glass -- very flat, little or no texture, with a bit of abrasiveness.

For coarser stones, I'd go to composites or use silicon carbide paper on a glass plate. For more affordable finer stones, I'd go to ceramic. Overall, I'd look at Japanese stones if you don't mind the extra maintenance they need. Ceramic is a particularly good compromise because you don't need to use oil and you don't need to resurface ceramic regularly. I'm more in a state of using extra-fine 3M abrasive paper (actually a plastic sheet) with fine-micron abrasives, taped to a glass plate. Then I use a ceramic to finish off.

Specifically to answer your question, I'd hold out for Norton-brand hard black Arkansas or white Arkansas stones, don't get dual-sided stones because often lesser quality stone is used with only one good surface (the bad surface is glued to the inside). You can wear into them a couple millimeters and suddenly find a void or weak vein. For any other stone, there are plenty of options available internationally that are as good as what you're likely to find in a natural American stone.

[Gattonero]

Thanks for the help.
I am not familiar with Arkansas stones, surely the cheaper ones ought to be some hit and miss.

Eventually, I ended up with a cheapo "sharp pebble" as a starter: I can mess around and even damage it, and it will be only £35 lost. When my honing skills get better, I'll get a decent stone.
So far, that cheap one is working ok, I can get the "slice paper-thin a ripe tomato" on all my knives, and with some work I could get a blue steel Higonokami to shave my hair. Not bad for a total beginner.

I also got two ceramic rods, for the quick work, and made two stropping pads. Man, the latter made all the difference there, with the Herold black paste the edge comes up better than a generic "green oxide" paste. And since I got carried away, I got everything in a recycled box, plus I made a pouch for the small ceramic rod & stropping pad.

[Too Tall]

Thanks for the help.
I am not familiar with Arkansas stones, surely the cheaper ones ought to be some hit and miss.

Eventually, I ended up with a cheapo "sharp pebble" as a starter: I can mess around and even damage it, and it will be only £35 lost. When my honing skills get better, I'll get a decent stone.
So far, that cheap one is working ok, I can get the "slice paper-thin a ripe tomato" on all my knives, and with some work I could get a blue steel Higonokami to shave my hair. Not bad for a total beginner.

I also got two ceramic rods, for the quick work, and made two stropping pads. Man, the latter made all the difference there, with the Herold black paste the edge comes up better than a generic "green oxide" paste. And since I got carried away, I got everything in a recycled box, plus I made a pouch for the small ceramic rod & stropping pad.

You are out of control ;) Agreed, it took me many tries and a few different methods to settle down.