VelocipedeSalon WOD: Workout of the day

[DOOFUS]

VoTwosday

not up to doing 4 x 5 min or 5 x 4 min @ 380+ on a trainer after a full day at school. So an intermittent, work-matched interval set.

the first two are 5 x 1min @ 380+, :15 soft pedal recoveries. the second two are 1:15 @ 380+, :15 recoveries. these were on my 42x17 fixed gear trainer bike, so getting the power also means high revs.

same work, but a little more tolerable, and yes, the last two efforts of each set elicit VO2 max, so they sure do kinda suck.

another way to skin the cat

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[defspace]

same work, but a little more tolerable, and yes, the last two efforts of each set elicit VO2 max, so they sure do kinda suck.

Can you talk about this a little bit more? How come only the last two efforts? How did you make this determination?

[dogrange]

Pistol squats were supposed to be my goal for the winter. I just wanted to be able to do one good one per side. But I just haven't gotten my knees to that place yet and I spent more time rowing than working on the pistols.

FWIW, it took me at least 2 years from beginning to try them until I could achieve a full pistol. My biggest problem was not knees (which are always an issues), but overall mobility in the lowest positions - once I started doing banded stretches to get my hips and thighs more mobile, I could finally achieve the full range of motion without falling over backwards at the bottom position.

[dogrange]

FWIW, it took me at least 2 years from beginning to try them until I could achieve a full pistol. My biggest problem was not knees (which are always an issues), but overall mobility in the lowest positions - once I started doing banded stretches to get my hips and thighs more mobile, I could finally achieve the full range of motion without falling over backwards at the bottom position.

I'll also add that cycling a lot destroys my ability to do pistols as my thighs are perpetually tired once my miles start to go up making it much harder to keep the non-pressing leg straight out in front. I'm just starting to ramp up my miles, and, like clockwork, my pistols and L-sits and other stuff that requires raising my legs to the front are starting to go to s***.

[DOOFUS]

Can you talk about this a little bit more? How come only the last two efforts? How did you make this determination?

sensations -- I've had VO2 max tests, and have a sense from intervals at what point I've hit VO2. For a continuous 4 min effort I usually hit it around 90-120 seconds, depending on conditioning, and what the power output is. On these, the death hammer was dropping at the start of the third 1min or 1:15 effort each set, and then I was hanging on for dear life.

[MarkC]

This time of year for VO2 work... I hate this time of year...

Last week did 3 sets of 5 x 90 sec 120% with 60 sec recovery on Tuesday (also VOTuesday's at my house) and 8 x 4 min at 108% on Thursday.

Dunno how or why I managed to actually complete those workouts.

FTP is 238w based on recent ramp/MAP test and that correlates well to expectations coming out of base.

[MarkC]

For a continuous 4 min effort I usually hit it around 90-120 seconds, depending on conditioning, and what the power output is.

This might be worth digging into a bit deeper as folks come out of winter and start doing VO2max and hill repeat work. When folks do VO2max work they are often looking at work intervals in the 1 - 4 minute range.

From what I've learned, for a good VO2max day you try to accumulate 12-18 minutes of total VO2max time. Depends on fitness, level of athlete, goals, etc. But if you are doing VO2max workouts you are probably training for racing and not just going for a ride.

An interesting thing for VO2max work is that the entire interval time is not stressing the VO2max system. For example, in a 3 minute period you might only get 2 min hitting the targeted systems.

A 5 x 3 workout at 115-125% sounds like 15 min of VO2 time but in this example it's only 10 min (5 efforts with 2 min hitting the targeted systems). To get near 15 min VO2 time you would need to add a couple more efforts making it a 7 x 3 workout (14 min @ VO2). Recovery time between intervals also matters.

Another part of this is power range. Some athletes lack pacing and end up doing anaerobic work for the first 20-40 seconds then dying. They might end up with a decent VO2max-like average power for 90-120 seconds but they didn't effectively target the VO2max system as they spent a portion of the interval well above, then died and ended up well under the power band for another portion.

I find VO2max work gives me a huge bang for the buck. It sucks and hate doing it but it pays off when I line up with a number on. Other very effective workouts are FTP over/unders and riding longer intervals at 102-107% for extended periods. Those three workouts plus one long ride with extended periods in the 80-90% (sweetspot) each week makes up the bulk of my build phase.

May have some of this a bit off on the VO2max but think it is what Robert was indicating. Correct / extend as useful for the group please!

[rec head]

FWIW, it took me at least 2 years from beginning to try them until I could achieve a full pistol. My biggest problem was not knees (which are always an issues), but overall mobility in the lowest positions - once I started doing banded stretches to get my hips and thighs more mobile, I could finally achieve the full range of motion without falling over backwards at the bottom position.

That's good to hear. A lot of my work was on mobility at the ankle and I was taking it pretty slow. I need to start practicing again.

I hurt my ribs a couple night ago so I think I have about a month of not too intense workouts. At least they don't bother me on the bike.

[DOOFUS]

more on VO2 nutz n boltz

all of these can elicit VO2 max and keep you there:

1) continuous intervals, even-paced: the classic Hickson protocol of 5-6 x 5 min intervals (4 x 5 for old guys). Or, 16-21 min of intervals that are between 3-4 minutes long.

2) intermittent intervals -- :30-2:00 efforts on short rest (:15-:30 -- the shorter the work interval, :15, for the 2:00 intervals, then :30). These would be done at 106-120% of FTP, depending on the number of work intervals. 5 x 1:00 @ 120% with :15 rest between each interval will leave you toasted after the last work bout; for 1:00 at 106%, you may have to do 12-15 work intervals to hit VO2 and then stay there for a while. Swimmers know these sets well -- 10 x 100, 10 x 200, etc..

3) continuous intervals where you go as hard as you can on each interval. power declines, but all watts are not created equal. As this study showed, athletes were still at VO2 max even though watts were dropping....

All-Out Intervals | Runner's World

Pacing, the missing piece of the puzzle to high-intensity interval training. - PubMed - NCBI

Which option you choose really depends on the demands of the event...intermittent efforts are like taking VO2 intensity pulls in a breakaway group. go-till-you-blow intervals replicate the dynamics of late-race surges on top of surges...choose wisely....

[MarkC]

So with frost on the windshield this morning it's time to think winter training for those of us in the Northeast US.

Unfortunately broke two ribs mid-August so that puts a twist on what I'd normally be doing. Now back to feeling good enough to start a pre-base program and reintegrating strength training. First injury in 40+ years of athletics that has caused significant time away from working out and major loss of fitness.

Other than be patient, don't over do it, etc etc, since this is a relatively common injury, curious if anyone has some major "don't do this" anecdotes from personal experience? I'm less concerned with returning to great fitness on the bike rapidly than in doing something that causes a longer set back.

Goals for next year will center on long time trials. Long being 40 and 50km events. First one will come end of May and looks like 4-5 total events within reasonable distance running through August. Am going to try and work in the 80/20 approach with two hard days per week on the TT bike. One being the 4 x 8 min "killer interval day" and the other being long intervals at 95-105% Remainder of riding will be dirt or road easy tempo stuff. The long TT bike intervals for specificity and incorporate strength and core training (for general health reasons) through the year.

Planning the following for November and December to set up for Jan-Feb-March which will be "base":

Bike: Most riding in zone 2, one hard day per week. Probably an hour starting with 10 x 60s at 105-110% of currently reduced FTP. If that goes well into December I'll probably add some 30/30s or an SST interval day.

Weights: Controlled movements, probably 50-60% of where I was at pre-injury and take it up from there. Basic 5x5 program hitting the basics. If this goes well then start of 2019 I'll move to the more full range exercises (squat, dead, power cleans). Am a bit worried about introducing squats and dead lifts too quickly and will only power clean once everything feels normal again. I can do BW squats no problem and dead lifts with the bar now but that is just form work no stress.

Core: Twisting is still not great but I can do static planks no problem. Am a big plank fan so 7-10 min per session is what I'm doing now. Couple times a week down from daily prior to injury. I had migrated to using our TRX for core program but that is too much right now. Will work back to that level over time.

Should be an interesting next 2-3 months. Fairly happy so far with recovery. No significant weight gain and I stayed active while allowing time to heal. Buddies with similar injuries say they really haven't felt fully normal for 6+ months.

[false_aesthetic]

Weights: Controlled movements, probably 50-60% of where I was at pre-injury and take it up from there. Basic 5x5 program hitting the basics. If this goes well then start of 2019 I'll move to the more full range exercises (squat, dead, power cleans). Am a bit worried about introducing squats and dead lifts too quickly and will only power clean once everything feels normal again. I can do BW squats no problem and dead lifts with the bar now but that is just form work no stress.

Core: Twisting is still not great but I can do static planks no problem. Am a big plank fan so 7-10 min per session is what I'm doing now. Couple times a week down from daily prior to injury. I had migrated to using our TRX for core program but that is too much right now. Will work back to that level over time.

Sounds like you've got a pretty good handle on your recovery.

I was essentially doing a modified 5x5 all last year. I found that the gains were pretty decent. Adding a few things to target weak muscles (and some pain spots) really helped on and off the bike -- sword draw, whatever the reverse of sword draw is, wide-grip cable rows (really slow reps), and scapular retractions.

Are you doing 1 plank for 7-10 min or are you breaking that up? Regardless, that's pretty rad. I've started alternating hanging leg raises with my planks. Not sure if its helping with my riding but its helping with my vanity.
----


I stopped racing a while ago and have been goalless since. That's been OK but it meant that I packed on lbs and found less happiness with riding. In late June I decided to lose some of the weight (down 15lbs right now) and set some race goals for 2019. If I can get in BWR, DK200, LT100 (with time goals) are what I'm focusing on. I worked with a coach to adjust my routine from a 5-day split to a 3-day rotating split.


e.g.
Week 1: Mon - Legs Tues - Chest/front delt/bicep Wed - Cardio Thurs - Back/rear delt/tricep Fri - Legs
Week 2: Mon - Chest/front delt/bicep Tues - Back/rear delt/tricep Wed - Cardio Thurs -- Legs Friday - Chest/front delt/bicep
etc.

The leg sessions are a lot more intense (lower rest times/higher reps/adding plyo at the end) but they don't leave me with DOMS for 2 days and I can hop on the bike the next day w/out feeling too faded.

Right now riding is all about building a better aerobic engine. This is something I've never focused on before -- but crits and RR are way different than what I wanna do next year. 1 hour at 60-70 of MHR feels so easy funny things happen when I hit hour 3.

I'm better off than I was last year at this time. We'll see where I end up at the first of the year and if I get into those races.

[MarkC]

Planks - Breaking them up into smaller chunks right now as I get back in . My max non-stop plank is 10 min and before I switched to the TRX to make things harder would do 2 x 5 min.

My core routine started with a plank challenge a couple years ago. Went kinda nuts from there. I was doing a TRX routine, Paloff pushes, hanging gorilla crunches and adding in some ab wheel rollers. I like the TRX 10-12 min core routine. Its brutally fun

[false_aesthetic]

Signed up for TrainerRoad and did their FTP ramp test this morning. Last time I did any sort've legit FTP test was about 7 years ago.
Then I was 63.5kg (7kg lighter than I am now) and had something like 4.2 w/kg. Today I'm at 3.04 w/kg.

I've got my work cut out but I think it's doable: Drop 4.3kg (10lbs ... the GF really won't like me dropping below 145lbs) and raise my FTP by 65 watts to get to where I was. If I don't lose weight I need to raise the FTP by 85 watts.

I got this yo, I got this.

I'll report back as I complete each training block.

[MarkC]

If that was the first time doing their version of the ramp test, give it few weeks and test again. It takes 2-3 attempts to really nail it.

If doing one of the base programs I think they retest every block (3 or so weeks) anyway.

Have been using the TR workout library for a year now. Build my own training blocks but I like the TR interface. Their tools have come a long way but not yet close to WKO for digging in.

FWIW - Sweet Spot Mid-Volume Base followed by Sustained Power Build gave me nice substrate to work from.

[false_aesthetic]

Yeah, it was my first time. Started at 140W and ran up to 295W or so before I just couldn't maintain that wattage anymore. What do you think the difference is between doing the test the first time vs doing a 2nd or 3rd time (other than hopefully higher #s ).

Is it weird that I found that test fun and that I'm looking forward to the next one?

So my goals are BWR -- 25 weeks out, DK200 -- 28 weeks (lottery dependent), Crusher/Tusher -- 35 weeks, and LT100 (lottery dependent). Throwing in a few early-season RRs for kicks.

I'm starting just as you suggest and then I'm figuring Climbing RR might be the best specialization since the above races have a decent amount up elevation gain and most of the "fun" riding in/around Los Angeles involves long, 20-50 minute climbs.

[rec head]

I've been using TR for a while but I just started one of the Time Crunch plans. I don't mind getting on the trainer 5 days a week but I don't really like to be on it more than 30 minutes, maybe 45.

My workouts are looking like this lately:
Day 1 (at home) 30 minutes on the trainer. Eat breakfast. Then do 10 sets pullups, situps and one leg balance (about 45 seconds to a minute on each leg). Stretch and roll.
Day 2 (at work) about 8 minutes on the elliptical then 2 different full body circuits. I make those up the day of. Stretch and roll.
Day 3 (at home) 30 minutes on the trainer.
Repeat.

[MarkC]

I think once folks adjust to the test method they gut out an extra minute or two. My first one I kinda bailed at something like 315. Next one out I knew I'd get through that level and also made the next one. Its all good - just estimates for the training and can always adjust up or down depending on feel

[false_aesthetic]

I'd love to hear what y'all are doing this time of year:

I'm almost done with my first block of Sustained Power using TrainerRoad. I'm already noticing some physical effects -- legs literally feel more solid (GF says they look more solid). Realized that I'm going to have to cut down my gym time from 4x/week to 3x/week or else I'm just going to be too tired to function. The pup likes hanging out with me while I ride: evidence

Been thinking about renewing my USAC license (I think I say that every year) so that I can do a few crits + RRs to brush up on my bike handling and test my legs leading up to the A-races. Anyone have thoughts on this?

Crits are almost weekly from Jan 15 on. They'd be my C-races.
There are 5-6 RR before BWR. I'd think they're mostly B-races.
DK200 is my A+race, BWR is my A Race. Crusher/Tusher would be an A— Race.

Thoughts?

[DOOFUS]

My approach this fall has been "less is more is more of the same."

The "less is more" part: thanks to three years consistent training (2012-15 were marred by lots of little injuries that added up), my power at my aerobic threshold (AeT) is up to 280w. My AeT is at a HR of 123bpm, and that 280w was 130bpm in the fall of 2016. The increased volume of the last three years is to credit for the improvement.

The "more of the same" part: 1500kj. That's my daily target to keep my weight under control over the winter. Up until this fall, 1500kj in 90min meant a ride with HR 7-10 beats above AeT. I'd have to take a recovery day now and then. Now, it's a Lydiard "bread-and-butter aerobic" ride.

The "less is more is more of the same" part: I've done fewer 2 x 20 or 1 x 45 workouts than in past winters. Part of it is I'm getting old, at 52. Part of it is if I only have to do a steady aerobic ride to get the kjoules, I'll just do that. I'm doing a twice-a-week 2 x 20 or 1 x 45 with HR in Friel's zone 3 (otherwise known as Seiler's zone 2), just to do some time over 300w, but no real heavy breathing.

As for % of FTP, I have no clue and I don't want to put myself through a test. I'm looking at HR, keeping everything under 75% of HR max except those tempo intervals.

One thing I will do a bit differently in Jan-Feb is train a bit like Jack Daniels recommends for an 800-1500m runner -- some short Repetition sets in Jan, then VO2 in Feb.

[false_aesthetic]

One thing I will do a bit differently in Jan-Feb is train a bit like Jack Daniels recommends for an 800-1500m runner -- some short Repetition sets in Jan, then VO2 in Feb.

Can you expand upon this?