irrational fear of flying

[echappist]

According to The Guardian, "A day before Wednesday night’s midair collision near Reagan airport, a different jet there had to abort its landing and make a second approach after a helicopter appeared near its flight path, the Washington Post reported."

"Flight tracking maps of aircraft traffic that night [ed. Jan. 28th] show an unidentified aircraft almost directly under Flight 4514 on the Potomac River as it was attempting to make its final descent into National, and just before the aircraft gives up on landing and instead makes a loop to try to make a second approach."

This other flight is Republic Airway flight 4514, whose altitude and flight map can be seen here.

In addition, it is now reported that the tower was understaffed on Wednesday, with two people present instead of the usual fourgift link.

The whole tragedy feels surreal to me, as I once lived in Arlington and really enjoyed seeing aircrafts land and take off while doing laps around Hains.

As our knowledgeable pilot forumites have mentioned, this unfortunate probabilities lined up on Wednesday. RIP to the victims, and condolences to their families.

[vertical_doug]

And whaddya think the chances are that they already know the genders and ethnicities of the pilots and people in the tower, and are deliberately coloring the investigation (or at least how it is received) before it starts?

So many people he can’t resist kicking. At least we know it wasn’t a windmill.

For what it is worth, the BBC is reporting the Helicopter was at 376 ft while it is suppose to be below a ceiling of 200 ft. Not sure if that is true.

The other thing BBC reported was most planes where coming in on one runway, and the control tower gave this plane the option to come in on the other runway.
It's possible the helicopter pilots were looking at the line of planes coming into the original runway, and not the second one.

The press in Europe is really just shaking their heads in disgust at the whole DEI bogeyman.

Records show that initiatives aimed at expanding the workforce existed under Trump's first term, including a program launched in 2019 to recruit and train qualified individuals with disabilities, including veterans, for careers in air traffic operations

I can't wait to see how they take a sharpie to the NTSB report when it comes out.

[thollandpe]

The press in Europe is really just shaking their heads in disgust at the whole DEI bogeyman.

My “whaddya think the chances are” post was hasty, we really must wait for the results of the investigation. We owe that to the people killed, and to the others involved.

But I stand by the previous post, that a hastily drafted “Immediate Assessment” executive memo is stupefyingly wrong. In so many ways. Like nobody’s ever seen before.

I can't wait to see how they take a sharpie to the NTSB report when it comes out.

In the first week they fired everyone they could who was responsible for aircraft safety. Let’s hope they didn’t (and won’t) hit the NTSB, and that “independent agency” has not lost too many employees to the buyout pressure campaign.

[Saab2000]

For what it is worth, the BBC is reporting the Helicopter was at 376 ft while it is suppose to be below a ceiling of 200 ft. Not sure if that is true.

The other thing BBC reported was most planes where coming in on one runway, and the control tower gave this plane the option to come in on the other runway.
It's possible the helicopter pilots were looking at the line of planes coming into the original runway, and not the second one.

The press in Europe is really just shaking their heads in disgust at the whole DEI bogeyman.

Records show that initiatives aimed at expanding the workforce existed under Trump's first term, including a program launched in 2019 to recruit and train qualified individuals with disabilities, including veterans, for careers in air traffic operations

I can't wait to see how they take a sharpie to the NTSB report when it comes out.

It is very common for ATC to ask if a plane can “Circle to land” to 33. This allows for more departures off the primary runway. I’ve done this literally hundreds of times at DCA over the past 20 years. It is not unsafe or inherently risky in any way. But adding low altitude helicopter traffic at night is a recipe for what happened. I am also waiting to get data to support the idea that the helicopter was too high. It is indeed restricted to 200’ along that corridor.

The DEI BS is unsurprising from DJT. He’s a buffoon and this is incredibly disrespectful of everyone. I’d bet my house there were dozens of his voters on those two aircraft and he disrespects them with his self serving comments. Just when you think he can’t go any lower, he does. I’d love to see his old supporters here come out and defend these grotesque comments, but they seem to have vanished.

[vertical_doug]

La Resistance is dead.

Defiance has given way to compliance.

Even if the NTSB is so bold as to issue a report of the facts, it will just immediately be denigrated by the WH.

[Saab2000]

La Resistance is dead.

Defiance has given way to compliance.

Even if the NTSB is so bold as to issue a report of the facts, it will just immediately be denigrated by the WH.

We’ll see. The video and digital data are so clear that there’s not much they can do to twist these facts. CNN has a few clips that are pretty clear and painful to watch.

[vertical_doug]

We’ll see. The video and digital data are so clear that there’s not much they can do to twist these facts. CNN has a few clips that are pretty clear and painful to watch.

For Factsake, you still trust CNN?!

[Saab2000]

For Factsake, you still trust CNN?!

The videos are everywhere. That’s where I saw them. I don’t really trust any “news” source anymore. But I have no reason to believe the videos are doctored.

[rwsaunders]

Pretty sad event. I give you pilots credit, as I fly PIT-DCA a couple of times a year and it’s a pretty crazy landing and takeoff experience from a passenger’s perspective, but on a clear day, a DC sightseeing spectacle. This passenger video from 23 January has been circulating that shows two helicopters cruising the Potomac while their plane is taking off. I should add that the photo is mine from November, but the video is from someone else.

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/black-...a-230760517563

[robin3mj]

I flew home last night into Dulles- Thursday nights are usually busy as the consulting crowd makes their way home, but it was an absolute mob scene last night. Likely due to folks arriving there as overspill from the pause on inbound traffic at DCA until midday yesterday.

I live halfway between both airports and never really had a strong preference between the two; that may change a bit in the coming months.

[bigbill]

A question for the pilots. When I was a ship driver, in busy areas we were constantly determining relative motion and closest point of approach (CPA). The most vital part was determining if a constant bearing decreasing range condition existed. If my ship and another ship were in danger of colliding, I had to take action which usually started with slowing down. If I stared at the other ship, it didn't appear to be moving relative to me because I was moving toward the same point. I know there's a big difference between 20 and 200 kts, but is this a thing in aviation?

[gregl]

A question for the pilots. When I was a ship driver, in busy areas we were constantly determining relative motion and closest point of approach (CPA). The most vital part was determining if a constant bearing decreasing range condition existed. If my ship and another ship were in danger of colliding, I had to take action which usually started with slowing down. If I stared at the other ship, it didn't appear to be moving relative to me because I was moving toward the same point. I know there's a big difference between 20 and 200 kts, but is this a thing in aviation?

Yes. Once you see another aircraft, it is second nature to look for relative motion. If no relative motion, the target is either coming directly at you or away from you. A very small heading change can quickly get you out of harm's way. Of course, if you don't see the target, you have the recipe for this week's disaster.

Greg

[gregl]

It is very common for ATC to ask if a plane can “Circle to land” to 33. This allows for more departures off the primary runway. I’ve done this literally hundreds of times at DCA over the past 20 years. It is not unsafe or inherently risky in any way. But adding low altitude helicopter traffic at night is a recipe for what happened. I am also waiting to get data to support the idea that the helicopter was too high. It is indeed restricted to 200’ along that corridor.

The DEI BS is unsurprising from DJT. He’s a buffoon and this is incredibly disrespectful of everyone. I’d bet my house there were dozens of his voters on those two aircraft and he disrespects them with his self serving comments. Just when you think he can’t go any lower, he does. I’d love to see his old supporters here come out and defend these grotesque comments, but they seem to have vanished.

^^More excellent observations. I think we would have enjoyed flying together, Jim.

Circle To Land (CTL) from RW1 to RW33 at DCA has been a common practice for decades. I did it many times, including at least one go-around caused by crossing traffic on RW1 taking too long to clear the intersection. IMO, the 200' ceiling for the helicopter route is a false flag. Even if the helicopter was exactly on course and at 200', there was insufficient vertical separation margin for an aircraft landing on RW33. Simple calculations show that an aircraft on final approach to RW 33, on a standard 3 degree glidepath, would have been at 200' very near the helicopter route. Essentially zero margin for error. The only safety tools in use were the eyeballs of the helicopter pilots. Clearly not enough of a safety factor. I have read in other forums/articles that helicopters were not allowed to fly that route when RW33 was in use. That is a more pertinent question than the altitude of the helicopter.

Greg

[Scott G.]

Yes. Once you see another aircraft, it is second nature to look for relative motion. If no relative motion, the target is either coming directly at you or away from you. A very small heading change can quickly get you out of harm's way. Of course, if you don't see the target, you have the recipe for this week's disaster.

Greg

Add the Army Pilots were using NVG, so you have FOV issues that could affect situational awareness.

[Saab2000]

^^More excellent observations. I think we would have enjoyed flying together, Jim.

The difference is that I think you actually like flying! I’m totally ambivalent about it though it’s been a good career. I’d rather go for a bike ride in upstate NY!

[gregl]

The difference is that I think you actually like flying! I’m totally ambivalent about it though it’s been a good career. I’d rather go for a bike ride in upstate NY!

Your flying career has been much longer than mine was. I pulled the plug after 11 years to save my marriage... which ended anyway a few years back. Had I stayed in flying, my memories might not be so rosy! If you get back to upstate NY, I would be very happy to host a ride or three!

Greg

[Saab2000]

Your flying career has been much longer than mine was. I pulled the plug after 11 years to save my marriage... which ended anyway a few years back. Had I stayed in flying, my memories might not be so rosy! If you get back to upstate NY, I would be very happy to host a ride or three!

Greg

Yeah, I’m in my 29th year in the business. Not all of it flying but the vast majority. I’m kind of over it. I expect to be done in the next 12-24 months even though I have seven years left until I turn 65. Just trying to tie up some financial loose ends and then I’m gonna pull the plug on the career. Back to way more riding then I hope!

[j44ke]

Add the Army Pilots were using NVG, so you have FOV issues that could affect situational awareness.

I was wondering about that. I remember a collision between two military helicopters during training years ago and night vision optics were a contributing factor. But that was a long while ago, so night vision optics must be significantly better now, right?

[j44ke]

Aéroport de Paris-Le Bourget. Private jets abound as do the companies that make, lease and sell them.



We went to see a James Turrell show at the Gagosian Gallery out there. We wondered why there was a Gagosian Gallery at this private jet aeroport and sales lot. Then my wife said, "My guess is shopping." Demographic synergy. The show was very good.

[bigbill]

My son is in advanced flight training for jets. Because of limited numbers of T-45 trainers and mechanical issues, the school is 53 weeks to "winging." Naval Aviation (Navy and Marines) is trying to make the school 43 weeks by eliminating delays and upgrading their jet trainers. It's going to take a while to make this happen so my son might graduate in 51 weeks instead of 53. For the Navy, we have fewer than 300 ships and over 400 admirals, I think there is room for streamlining.