irrational fear of flying

[bigbill]

I'm north of the Kingman, AZ, airport. I was riding my MTB today and saw an MD 80 on final approach to the airport. Its final, final approach. It will join the hundred or so aircraft waiting to be scrapped. I used to work in the airport industrial park and there are DC-6s, C-130s, DC-8s, DC-10s, L-1011s, Convair 880s, 757s, 767s, and a crap-tonne of MD-80s.

[72gmc]

Least legroom in any aircraft I’ve ever flown: MD-80, Northwest Airlines. I think the legroom is the airline’s fault but I’ve harbored a grudge against MD-80s ever since.

[Mabouya]

I'm north of the Kingman, AZ, airport. I was riding my MTB today and saw an MD 80 on final approach to the airport. Its final, final approach. It will join the hundred or so aircraft waiting to be scrapped. I used to work in the airport industrial park and there are DC-6s, C-130s, DC-8s, DC-10s, L-1011s, Convair 880s, 757s, 767s, and a crap-tonne of MD-80s.

In memoriam:

[vertical_doug]

Howard Hughes called and he wants his plane back...

Yes, but thankfully the old Eero Saarinen TWA Flight Center survives as the TWA hotel.







https://www.archdaily.com/66828/ad-c...-eero-saarinen

[rwsaunders]

So we are getting a new airport at PIT, which sort of boggles my mind from a pragmatic standpoint. It turned 30 years old in 2022, replacing an airport that was built in 1952, with local officials acknowledging that although PIT will never again be a hub, the $1.4B “right sizing” replacement is much needed.

https://pittransformed.com/

[gregl]

So we are getting a new airport at PIT, which sort of boggles my mind from a pragmatic standpoint. It turned 30 years old in 2022, replacing an airport that was built in 1952, with local officials acknowledging that although PIT will never again be a hub, the $1.4B “right sizing” replacement is much needed.

https://pittransformed.com/

The transformation in US airports over the past 30 years has been something to behold. When I was traveling from SYR to Europe twice monthly in the late ‘90s and early aughts, PIT was my favorite hub. Great customs and very few delays. After USAir’s multiple bankruptcies, the bulk of the international flights shifted to the dump we call PHL, with attendant delays, lost luggage, and slow customs. Cincinnati was another great hub that went down the toilet. Sad to see what’s become of the US air travel experience.

Greg

[GeneK]

I would have to agree that PHL is pretty bad.

[j44ke]

Wasn't the Philadelphia airport run by the mob for a while? I remember something like that. Maybe it was the concessions (food, etc.) they controlled.

[Saab2000]

PHL used to be a terrible place to fly but they've invested in it and it's not longer the major hub it once was, making it a more reasonable airport to operate from and to. It lies under New York's airspace and this used to create conflict but I think it's less of an issue today. I operated regularly at PHL for more than a decade and it's far better today than during the mid-2000s. It wouldn't be unusual then to be Nr. 20 or 30 in line for departure when the weather deteriorated. Today they move traffic more efficiently.

As for east coast airports, the transformation of LGA from a national embarrassment to a very decent airport has to be experienced to be believed. That was also (and remains) a regular destination for me and it's unrecognizable from 15 years ago.

All that said, on paper I've got about 8.5 years until current rules force me out of the game. I hope to be out sooner than. C'mon Medicare for All!

[bigbill]

When I was doing a NATO base project in Sardinia, I had to fly back to the US once a month (8 trips) for meetings due to the classified nature of the project and the stakeholders in the US wanted a face to face. I flew from Rome to a US international airport, then a domestic flight to DCA where I utilized the metro system (yellow line at the airport) to avoid driving. I flew into Philly, Cincinnati, JFK, Chicago, and Atlanta. Cincinnati was the easiest because it seemed to never be busy. Chicago meant customs and immigration and a sprint to my connecting flight. About half the time, I missed my connection despite planned layovers. JFK, I hear it's better now, it sucked then. Atlanta is a good workout but I made my connections. Philadelphia was a disorganized mess in 2007 and I would have missed my connection if TSA hadn't been pulling active military out of line and sending us to a dedicated lane. When I took my son to Italy in 2014, we flew DFW to Amsterdam on KLM then domestic to Rome. The Dutch are much better at immigration and customs than Italy, IME.

We plan on a trip to NYC in the near future and plan on flying into LGA. We flew into Newark in December 2021; it was all torn up and disorganized. I heard it is better now. Maybe.

[rwsaunders]

First time that I heard a pilot use the term “rough air”, as he described what we were likely to encounter on the last 40 minutes of our 65 minute flight from ATL-MSY last evening. I of course translated his flight preview to mean “buckle up buttercup”, and I tightened my seat belt to the limits of not forcing my bladder to require a mid-flight emptying. Luckily for us, there were only 10 minutes or so of uncomfortable flight time…did I just coin a new term?…and like a Dad on a GEICO commercial, I thanked the folks with the stripes up front, for the ride. PS I do this all the time anyway, which really embarrasses my wife and kids when then fly with me, but that’s how I roll, or should I say fly.

[72gmc]

I’m a habitual thanker for a job well done. I felt bad leaving the buck bay shellfish farm last night—I failed to go back in and thank the counter crew for a great meal.

Should I book LaGuardia instead of Kennedy for my NYC trips?

[rwsaunders]

Should I book LaGuardia instead of Kennedy for my NYC trips?

LGA…closer ride to mid-town and the rest of the city. Jorn might have another secret tip though.

[gregl]

PHL used to be a terrible place to fly but they've invested in it and it's not longer the major hub it once was, making it a more reasonable airport to operate from and to. It lies under New York's airspace and this used to create conflict but I think it's less of an issue today. I operated regularly at PHL for more than a decade and it's far better today than during the mid-2000s. It wouldn't be unusual then to be Nr. 20 or 30 in line for departure when the weather deteriorated. Today they move traffic more efficiently.

Thanks for the update! My last time through PHL was in 2018. It was a clear, VFR day, so no delays. Just the challenge of rushing from the F concourse to the main terminal to catch my connecting flight. Glad to hear the delays on IFR days aren't as lengthy.

As for east coast airports, the transformation of LGA from a national embarrassment to a very decent airport has to be experienced to be believed. That was also (and remains) a regular destination for me and it's unrecognizable from 15 years ago.

I've successfully avoided LGA since 2004! Glad it's likewise improved from its rather dubious past. I'm curious to know how the FAA and airlines have improved LGA. In the past, the combination of the NY airspace (shared with JFK, EWR, TEB, HPN, etc.), intersecting runways, and overscheduling (too many flights scheduled for anything but VFR weather) meant that LGA literally fell apart as soon as ceilings and visibility dropped. A large line of thunderstorms would lead to multi-hour delays. Back in the days of 19 or fewer seat commuter planes with no lavatories, it was almost comical to hear the flight crews asking to go back to the gate when the delays went from minutes to hours. My personal record was 3:30 sitting in the LGA conga line. On that occasion, I heard an AA 767 captain tell LGA ground control that the cabin crew would be serving dinner to the pax since they weren't going anywhere for the next several hours. He also asked if the pilots could have beer/wine with their meals (implying an 8+ hour wait).

Greg

[vertical_doug]

I’m a habitual thanker for a job well done. I felt bad leaving the buck bay shellfish farm last night—I failed to go back in and thank the counter crew for a great meal.

Should I book LaGuardia instead of Kennedy for my NYC trips?

LGA is nice now. I would not hesitate to fly into LGA. Ride into Manhattan is so much quicker.

[echappist]

LGA is nice now. I would not hesitate to fly into LGA. Ride into Manhattan is so much quicker.

If only there were a connection to Midtown the way there's the Elizabeth Line/ Gatwick Express in London. Seems so 20th century that cars and buses remain the only way to get into town.

Back when I attended grad school in the city, it was basically 45-55 minutes one way on the M60, despite the two locations being separated by 10 miles. I bet I could putter along faster on a Citybike...

Whatever the faults one may find with IAD, DCA, PHL, and EWR, at least for each, there's a direct rail link downtown.

Still all these pales in comparison to Belgium and the Netherlands. 25 minute train ride from BRU and AMS to respective town centers...

[Saab2000]

I've successfully avoided LGA since 2004! Glad it's likewise improved from its rather dubious past. I'm curious to know how the FAA and airlines have improved LGA. In the past, the combination of the NY airspace (shared with JFK, EWR, TEB, HPN, etc.), intersecting runways, and overscheduling (too many flights scheduled for anything but VFR weather) meant that LGA literally fell apart as soon as ceilings and visibility dropped. A large line of thunderstorms would lead to multi-hour delays. Back in the days of 19 or fewer seat commuter planes with no lavatories, it was almost comical to hear the flight crews asking to go back to the gate when the delays went from minutes to hours. My personal record was 3:30 sitting in the LGA conga line. On that occasion, I heard an AA 767 captain tell LGA ground control that the cabin crew would be serving dinner to the pax since they weren't going anywhere for the next several hours. He also asked if the pilots could have beer/wine with their meals (implying an 8+ hour wait).

Greg

Do a Google image search of LGA. Over the past five years they’ve been systematically razing old terminals while building new ones, set back a bit. They’ve also created some taxiways behind the terminals, with pedestrian bridges set above them. We can taxi underneath these bridges. This, combined with dedicated ramp frequencies moving traffic to taxiway entrance points has massively reduced congestion on the ground. As often as not we now land and taxi to our gate without ever stopping the airplane.

Additionally, the new terminals are spacious and well lit with generous seating. They’re no longer the awful, claustrophobic, nearly windowless buildings they used to be.

If you haven’t been there since 2004 (when I first started flying there) you literally wouldn’t recognize it because basically only the runway configuration remains the same. Almost all else is new.

[htwoopup]

LGA is nice now in a sort of American Mall airport kind of way. For those of us who were used to a quick dash through an uglier than my kid sister airport which totaled 17 minutes from the plane door to the apartment door on the Upper East Side it kinda sucks now. Reason is the time from jet bridge to taxi line/ Uber pickup is 20 minutes. The little airport is huge now. Not Delta Terminal 4 at JFK huge (which has to be a mile from security to the farthest gates or at least it seems like it) but the time difference is noticeable...although much more pleasant.

[j44ke]

The AirTrain extension from LGA to Willets Point died after Cuomo left. Knowing how Cuomo works, I wouldn't be surprised if he killed it from behind the scenes. It started at $450million and before even much actual work on the ground it was $2.4billion. No one believed they could build it for $450million. All the contractors bid to get signed onto the job, and then they calculate how much it is actually going to cost. So current Gov. Hochul shut it down. Or rather, she decided to go with a ramped up bus system using the Q70 bus that already operates as an LGA link to and from the subway. The Q70 in its previous incarnation did about 1.7million people a year. I think the new version will be free. I am not sure if it is direct or makes stops in between.

The AirTrain was going to deliver LGA customers to Willets Point Station for either the 7 train (subway) or the Long Island Railroad. That would add a projected 2million people to those lines.

[htwoopup]

The AirTrain extension from LGA to Willets Point died after Cuomo left. Knowing how Cuomo works, I wouldn't be surprised if he killed it from behind the scenes. It started at $450million and before even much actual work on the ground it was $2.4billion. No one believed they could build it for $450million. All the contractors bid to get signed onto the job, and then they calculate how much it is actually going to cost. So current Gov. Hochul shut it down. Or rather, she decided to go with a ramped up bus system using the Q70 bus that already operates as an LGA link to and from the subway. The Q70 in its previous incarnation did about 1.7million people a year. I think the new version will be free. I am not sure if it is direct or makes stops in between.

The AirTrain was going to deliver LGA customers to Willets Point Station for either the 7 train (subway) or the Long Island Railroad. That would add a projected 2million people to those lines.

As Jorn said, AirTran was talked about being resurrected but is now dead again as of a couple of weeks ago. It is going to be more frequent buses which they have now that are actually pretty good either to the subway or to the Upper East Side buses down to the rest of the world.

Would be nice if they brought back the old ferry from the Marine Air Terminal (where the Eastern shuttle used to go, and some airlines use now again)...Marine Air Terminal is actually a beautiful old building. I think it is called Terminal A now. The ferry would be especially good if it went to the 90th St ferry terminal by Gracie Mansion. Just to be selfish.