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Thread: irrational fear of flying

  1. #1101
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Quote Originally Posted by vertical_doug View Post
    Although the pilots have responsibility, I'd like to review the corporate policies of the operator. Sometime, outcomes are a natural result of policies and incentives in place.

    It's the old 'It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It'.

    Why else do you think Banks keep failing after all these years.....
    Greed?

  2. #1102
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Quote Originally Posted by vertical_doug View Post
    Although the pilots have responsibility, I'd like to review the corporate policies of the operator. Sometime, outcomes are a natural result of policies and incentives in place.

    It's the old 'It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It'.

    Why else do you think Banks keep failing after all these years.....
    You are absolutely correct that corporate policies and culture have a significant effect on safety. I flew for four companies before pulling the plug on my pilot career. One had a poor safety culture (with an attendant record of incidents and accidents, including one fatality), one had a mediocre safety culture (several incidents, only one accident, thankfully no injuries), and two had excellent safety cultures (no accidents and the only incidents were not precipitated by the flight crews). I certainly can't speak to the safety culture for the company that owned/operated the aircraft involved in this event. The aircraft was only about ten years old and both pilots had been through simulator/ground initial training for the aircraft in October, 2022. Both were qualified to be Pilot-In-Command (PIC).

    "Normalization of deviance" does certainly happen in aviation. It happens even in well-funded companies which have no apparent reasons for bad policies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_B...tream_IV_crash. Having worked in an environment where I once told a chief pilot that I would personally call the local FAA office to inform them of his illegal operations, I have zero empathy for pilots who don't make safety their #1 priority. My safety and the safety of my passengers were my only concerns. Further, if a pilot conducts illegal operations to please their employer, they can be sure that they will be "hung out to dry" in the event of an incident or crash. I've grounded the super wealthy, the famous and infamous, and nationally known politicians when a flight would require illegal or unsafe operations. I did it not only for my and their safety, but also because if anything went wrong, my career was on the line. In the case of this fatal event, the pilots knowingly took the aircraft aloft with issues that required resolution before flight. They took the risk and their passenger paid the ultimate price. The NTSB will ultimately find the root cause and find any corporate cultural issues that contributed.

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    Greed?
    Applies to aviation too. In many cases, the companies with poor safety cultures are either struggling to stay in the black or driven by greed to improve profit. The best aviation companies I worked for were well-funded and had generally ethical corporate cultures.

    Greg
    Last edited by gregl; 03-27-2023 at 10:31 AM. Reason: Fixed typo
    Old age and treachery beat youth and enthusiasm every time…

  3. #1103
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    On another episode of "Our government is ridiculous", Air Force 2 in-flight food sucks, Air Force 1 food is expensive. I would have never guessed AF1 passengers needed to pay for their own food.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/new...wo/ar-AA19nYwG

    But even those who travel with the president in the superior comfort of Air Force One aren't happy. Their meals might be more sophisticated - but they have to pay for them, and it's not possible to opt out.

    That's a problem for junior staffers, who can run up hundreds of dollars of food bills a year while on work trips.

    One former staff member estimated that frequent travellers could end up forking out $1,000 (£810) a year in meals while travelling on Air Force One. “It’s really hard to pay off on any junior staffer’s salary," they said - although, they conceded, the food is "truly incredible."

  4. #1104
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Seems appropriate to have a per diem for travel, and if there is no option to $$$ dining the per diem should reflect that. A charge they can’t opt out of seems the opposite of generous. I’m guessing they can’t opt out because their work commitments leave no option to stand in the shake shack line after the flight.

  5. #1105
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Quote Originally Posted by AngryScientist View Post
    On another episode of "Our government is ridiculous", Air Force 2 in-flight food sucks, Air Force 1 food is expensive. I would have never guessed AF1 passengers needed to pay for their own food. [snip]
    You should see the bill if the Captain deploys the IR and RF countermeasures,
    you want to get the AMEX with Raytheon points.

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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Quote Originally Posted by AngryScientist View Post
    On another episode of "Our government is ridiculous", Air Force 2 in-flight food sucks, Air Force 1 food is expensive. I would have never guessed AF1 passengers needed to pay for their own food.
    I believe it. When I was carrier deployments for OEF and OIF, journalists and visiting politicians had to pay for meals. They get a bill before departing.

    Edit. As an officer, I got a mess bill each month on deployment. It was the only reason I took a checkbook on deployment. I got BAS (basic allowance for sustenance) which in no way was enough to cover my mess bill. The amount had gone up, I think I was getting around $190 a month. My son gets over $300 a month.
    Last edited by bigbill; 04-03-2023 at 11:27 AM.
    Retired Sailor, Marine dad, semi-professional cyclist, fly fisherman, and Indian School STEM teacher.
    Assistant Operating Officer at Farm Soap homemade soaps. www.farmsoap.com

  7. #1107
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Some A+ work from the FBI on this one...

    I hope the pilot got the next day off at least...

    https://www.insider.com/fbi-agents-b...ong-man-2023-4

  8. #1108
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Quote Originally Posted by AngryScientist View Post
    Some A+ work from the FBI on this one...

    I hope the pilot got the next day off at least...

    https://www.insider.com/fbi-agents-b...ong-man-2023-4
    There will be a settlement paid I am sure. Then he can take a nice long vacation.
    Jorn Ake
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying



    Lots of angry air up there this morning…pilots are certainly earning combat pay with all of the crazy weather lately,
    rw saunders
    hey, how lucky can one man get.

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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    I have a trip to London in May and the SFO-Heathrow flight is on an A380. Pretty excited to fly on that behemoth, I've never been on one and they won't be around forever.

  11. #1111
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Quote Originally Posted by bcm119 View Post
    I have a trip to London in May and the SFO-Heathrow flight is on an A380. Pretty excited to fly on that behemoth, I've never been on one and they won't be around forever.
    My wife and I flew from ORD to LHR on the upper deck of an A380 in 2019 (cashed in some ff miles) and she claims that I almost_ _ ed myself when I saw the plane. At one point in the flight I had one of those moments of asking myself, “is this thing actually flying?” as it was so smooth. Of course, I went up and down the stairs a few times to check things out.
    rw saunders
    hey, how lucky can one man get.

  12. #1112
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Quote Originally Posted by rwsaunders View Post
    My wife and I flew from ORD to LHR on the upper deck of an A380 in 2019 (cashed in some ff miles) and she claims that I almost_ _ ed myself when I saw the plane. At one point in the flight I had one of those moments of asking myself, “is this thing actually flying?” as it was so smooth. Of course, I went up and down the stairs a few times to check things out.
    I've heard that it is smooth and quiet, especially on the upper deck. We also went for the upper deck in the 2 seats next to a window. I'll be curious if the higher cabin pressure makes a difference on a long flight, although I've read the A350 and 787 are capable of even higher cabin pressure.

  13. #1113
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Quote Originally Posted by AngryScientist View Post
    Some A+ work from the FBI on this one...

    I hope the pilot got the next day off at least...

    https://www.insider.com/fbi-agents-b...ong-man-2023-4
    FBI response: "Well, he never said the "safe" word, so we just kept pounding him..."

  14. #1114
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Quote Originally Posted by rwsaunders View Post
    My wife and I flew from ORD to LHR on the upper deck of an A380 in 2019 (cashed in some ff miles) and she claims that I almost_ _ ed myself when I saw the plane. At one point in the flight I had one of those moments of asking myself, “is this thing actually flying?” as it was so smooth. Of course, I went up and down the stairs a few times to check things out.
    A380s are the best. A lot quieter, though noise cancelling headphones overcomes the noise issue.

  15. #1115
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Quote Originally Posted by bcm119 View Post
    I have a trip to London in May and the SFO-Heathrow flight is on an A380. Pretty excited to fly on that behemoth, I've never been on one and they won't be around forever.
    Seated next to a window on the second floor, it feels a bit like taking off in a ten-story building.

    Or a horizontal version of the Empire State Building.

    On takeoff, the wings move up and down slowly like an albatross trying to get off the ground. Feels like you are never going to take off and then you are. Weird feeling.

  16. #1116
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Depending on the flight path into Heathrow, I can watch them fly across London to Heathrow from my deck. The odd thing about the 380, it is so large, it really looks like it is just stalled in the air. It doesn't really look like it is flying. I have the same thing when they fly out the other side of Heathrow over Windsor. When I am on the bike and you see the 380 taking off overhead, it just looks stalled midair.... I never see it with any other plane.

    I really do not know what the optical effect is.

  17. #1117
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Howard Hughes called and he wants his plane back...

    rw saunders
    hey, how lucky can one man get.

  18. #1118
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    ^^ Rogue painter with a sense of humor? ^^
    Jorn Ake
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    ^^ Rogue painter with a sense of humor? ^^
    AA purchased the remnants of TWA about 20 or 25 years ago or so. It was a very unpleasant "merger" from what I gather. Most mergers result in hard feelings but some are worse than others with merging of seniority lists and creating domicile opportunities. AA has some airplanes painted in the colors of the airlines that were swallowed into what is today's American Airlines.
    La Cheeserie!

  20. #1120
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    Default Re: irrational fear of flying

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    ^^ Rogue painter with a sense of humor? ^^
    Props to AA for their retro-jets. I think they’ve done vintage AA (lightning bolt), ‘70s-‘10s wide stripe AA, TWA, Allegheny, AirCal, USAir, PSA, Piedmont, and America West. Now if they’d just do a couple in Mohawk and Empire liveries, this upstate NY boy would be pleased.

    Greg
    Old age and treachery beat youth and enthusiasm every time…

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