Animal life around Fahnestock State Park

[j44ke]

Most of the effort to lobby states to accept that there are mountain lions within their boundaries is to allow hunting them with dogs. It is an old story really, especially when there are livestock in the area.

And it is also one of those "shadow on the cave wall" phenomena. We are astonished or amused when people in other countries develop myths like chupacabras and vampires in order to attach a physical source to their fears and anxieties, but it happens all the time in the United States. Remember the giant bird or pterodactyl in the midwest 10 or so years ago that people swore could carry off children and livestock? Mountain lions plug in snugly with this impulse. They are stealthy, quiet, shy and extremely powerful. If you are feeling powerless and exposed to the unfairness of life, a mountain lion makes a good self-protective mythology.

Bobcats aren't scary. They really don't like people, and all their pray species are pretty small. If you have guinea hens or chickens in your yard, they'll clean you out pretty quickly (though weasels and raccoons do that more often than bobcats.) Mountain lions are deer eaters, so people aren't too different. You do have to pay attention in the wilderness areas where they are commonly found. In the Chiricahua Mountains in Southeast Arizona, mountain lions have been known to follow people, though I don't know of any attacks. A friend who worked at one of the ranches in that area was hiking in fresh snow one winter, and when she turned around to return to the trailhead, she came to a section where a mountain lion's footprints where mixed in with her footprints. Looked like the cat had been following her. I think that would freak anyone out.

Bald eagles are opportunistic scavengers. Catching fish in the water with your talons is hard to do and a lot of work with a relatively small percentage chance of success. So a dead deer is like going to the grocery store. Although there are often crowds, it is a heck of a lot easier.

[BShow]

No need to worry about being attacked by a bobcat. They're like foxes, very quiet and secretive and want nothing to do with people.

We have bobcats in this area, I know a few folks who've seen them, but I have yet to see one in the wild myself. I've seen a few fox, those guys are awesome.

yep. if you actually see a bobcat in the wild, consider yourself very lucky. They know you're there and steer way clear of you. I think I saw one standing on a rock formation on a ridge at dusk one time. The range was way to far to see what it actually was, but I like to call it a bobcat. It was a fleeting moment.

As you said, Fox are very much the same way, though much more common. I'll see them in my area a couple times a year. I actually have a fox or two living in the small patch of woods behind my house. I've only ever seen it a few times after dark and once in the daylight, but man, have I heard it... the sound those guys make, sent chills up my spine the first time I heard it. mfer likes to set up shop behind a big ole forsythia bush 15 yards from my back door and scream like a banshee. If you're not familiar, check Youtube (don't type in "what does a fox say?") - it's eery as shit in person, and it's damned loud.

[bcm119]

I don't get the "conspiracy" mindset. It's very odd to me.

I'm well aware of it... I work for one of the fed. land management agencies, and we get all sorts of crazy letters, lawsuits, etc. essentially accusing us of "hiding" stuff. I'm always curious about the line of thinking that leads someone to believe that we are hiding things from the public. It's basically libertarian paranoia, confirmed by misinformation floating around the interwebs. But it's often so irrational and far fetched that I have trouble understanding why/how people believe this stuff. We can't really address it if we don't know what the cause is. If there was evidence that mtn lions were making a comeback in new england, the first thing the State dept of fish and game/local forest service office would do is make sure the public was educated about the myths and realities of them.

We have mtn lions in the open spaces surrounding the bay area, but they are seldom seen and very rarely cause any problems. Rattlesnakes and ticks are far more of a problem for the average day hiker, but it's good to be aware that you are in their territory and keep an eye out, although you can be sure they will see you way before you see them, if you do at all.

I remember hearing stories about them in New England from my friends in VT, back in the days when Catamount was a prominent local beer. Everyone had a story, but no one had evidence.

[Tom]

At work they put in some light poles with flat tops just about the height of my second story window. They make perfect picnic tables for hawks. One is about ten feet from my desk. The bird looks over with a stare that says "Don't you know its rude to watch somebody eat?"

[nrs5000]

I'm well aware of it... I work for one of the fed. land management agencies, and we get all sorts of crazy letters, lawsuits, etc. essentially accusing us of "hiding" stuff. I'm always curious about the line of thinking that leads someone to believe that we are hiding things from the public. It's basically libertarian paranoia, confirmed by misinformation floating around the interwebs. But it's often so irrational and far fetched that I have trouble understanding why/how people believe this stuff. We can't really address it if we don't know what the cause is. If there was evidence that mtn lions were making a comeback in new england, the first thing the State dept of fish and game/local forest service office would do is make sure the public was educated about the myths and realities of them.

We have mtn lions in the open spaces surrounding the bay area, but they are seldom seen and very rarely cause any problems. Rattlesnakes and ticks are far more of a problem for the average day hiker, but it's good to be aware that you are in their territory and keep an eye out, although you can be sure they will see you way before you see them, if you do at all.

I remember hearing stories about them in New England from my friends in VT, back in the days when Catamount was a prominent local beer. Everyone had a story, but no one had evidence.

How about the mountain lion that came down to the Gourmet Ghetto a few years ago? The cops shot it in a backyard a few doors down from Chez Panisse. Much outrage ensued.

Also, do they still make Catamount? It was a fave when I was in college.

[monadnocky]

If the guy wanted to rant about something, he should rant about the decline in moose populations and how it can be stopped.

Absolutely. This is a terrible thing in northern New England right now. Very, very sad.

[bcm119]

How about the mountain lion that came down to the Gourmet Ghetto a few years ago? The cops shot it in a backyard a few doors down from Chez Panisse. Much outrage ensued.

Also, do they still make Catamount? It was a fave when I was in college.

Nope, Catamount went belly up years ago. Harpoon bought the brewing facility in VT and now they produce most of their bottled beer there I think.

Yeah, a mountain lion getting shot in Berkeley is a recipe for major civil unrest!

[lukasz]

This thread reminded me of an article I read a few weeks ago:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/07/wo...he-sniper.html

[s_curran]

Right now in NH there's a debate that has descended into downright nastiness regarding whether or not there are mountain lions here. I went to a presentation regarding this a few years back - I thought the fellow presenting it was a wildlife biologist, but instead it was presented by some guy who was convinced that the local authorities were conspiring to keep the fact away from the public that mountain lions are here in NH and VT. It just got worse and worse in terms of nuttiness and paranoia (his explanations on why NH Fish & Wildlife would want to hide this from the public were downright crazy), but people were totally falling for it.

He presented a slideshow of mountain lions - very nice pics pulled from the Web, most with dramatic CA or Rocky Mountain landscapes in the background.

He also claimed that he saw mountain lions in and around NH "about once a week," but could not provide a picture of one, or of a footprint, remains, scat, anything. No evidence whatsoever and a roomful of people walked out convinced that there are several hundred mountain lions in NH.

I did, however, see a bobcat crossing Route 10 in Gilsum NH a few years back. Confused me at first because my brain just kept saying "cats don't get that big" before I realized it wasn't a domestic cat. Bigger than I thought they were. S/he just looked at me, kind of shrugged, and kept on walking across the road.

Really, one of the greatest pleasures I have while riding- seeing stuff like this that I otherwise would never see.

I grew up about 30 min north of Boston. One day we were building trails and saw a massive "cat", thinking it was a mountain lion or bobcat, turns out we were right, there had been some reports of it crossing through town, and supposedly made our local DH trails its home.

One of the coolest things I've ever experienced was following a fox down one of the downhill trails, it saw me near the top, took off and I followed him down some single track going pretty fast for 30 seconds or so, felt like an eternity.

[jonathanb]

I hate to say this, but the symbol of our country doesn't look terribly impressive there, feeding off carrion.

That'a why Ben Franklin opposed its use and wanted the owl to be our national symbol instead.

[spopepro]

That'a why Ben Franklin opposed its use and wanted the owl to be our national symbol instead.

I hate to be that guy on the internet, but it wasn't an owl, but a turkey. And he wasn't really putting it forward as a serious suggestion:

“For my own part I wish the Bald Eagle had not been chosen the Representative of our Country. He is a Bird of bad moral Character. He does not get his Living honestly. You may have seen him perched on some dead Tree near the River, where, too lazy to fish for himself, he watches the Labour of the Fishing Hawk; and when that diligent Bird has at length taken a Fish, and is bearing it to his Nest for the Support of his Mate and young Ones, the Bald Eagle pursues him and takes it from him.

With all this injustice, he is never in good case but like those among men who live by sharping & robbing he is generally poor and often very lousy. Besides he is a rank coward: The little King Bird not bigger than a Sparrow attacks him boldly and drives him out of the district. He is therefore by no means a proper emblem for the brave and honest Cincinnati of America who have driven all the King birds from our country…

“I am on this account not displeased that the Figure is not known as a Bald Eagle, but looks more like a Turkey. For the Truth the Turkey is in Comparison a much more respectable Bird, and withal a true original Native of America… He is besides, though a little vain & silly, a Bird of Courage, and would not hesitate to attack a Grenadier of the British Guards who should presume to invade his Farm Yard with a red Coat on.”

[jonathanb]

At least someone's paying attention!

[rydesteel]

In Illinois the DNR is just starting to admit to the amount of predators we have. I've seen tracks from Bobcat's, had a Coyote den in the woods behind the house, heard a wolf howl one night (my Lab woke up came over and hid behind me, when she went out later for a nature call I was prepared), there have been several sightings/killings of Mountain lions, and a few Black bears have been spotted a couple counties north of me. Most of it is about prey/food there are more wild deer today then when the America's were settled. We killed most of the predators, and planted food plots for the prey. the Trickster/Coyote is one of the most opportunistic scavengers in the world, we tried to kill them all didn't happen. BTW our Eagle count last year was over 2,500 in the QC area when we moved here in 69 an Eagle made front page news. As soon as the Mississippi freezes the Eagles start heading south. Cool to see but Scavengers all the way. Nature is a cool mistress, I don't have to faster than the bear after all ;>).

[Nierman]

Seen a few bobcats behind the house - one just a couple weeks ago. They rarely make noise but when they do it's pretty cool. And they're tiny - I can't believe folks that mistake them for a mountain lion when the internet has so many pictures. Not even close. Not much bigger than some house cats.