Mad Scientist?

[David Lewis]

Some of you are probably well aware of my unique philosophical position, and maybe you think I'm misguided. I'm going to do my best in the next few years to convince you otherwise (mainly because I want to earn your trust as a supplier). In the meantime, earlier this week bikeportland.org published a short article about me, and I'm curious about your opinions.

Holiday profile: David Lewis of Veteran Bicycle Co. is trying to invent a cheaper bike - BikePortland.org

The author is a very cool guy, and a professional, however his grasp of manufacturing and bicycle construction is quite limited and I feel like he took some of the minor aspects of my mission and ran with them, leaving the major themes behind. For example, I use silicon bronze and a TIG torch instead of silver brazing cable guides and so forth, and this eliminates a whole set of steps and supplies, and his takeaway was that I am eliminating brass and water from my metal joining techniques. It doesn't make me sound like I know what I am doing, frankly.

Also, I am not trying to challenge the boneshaker or reinvent the recumbent, despite what I said. I was illustrating that the bicycle hasn't really changed much in 140 years.

Despite some odd wording, I am happy to have some exposure as I develop my business. I spent some time this summer at the Price Center for Entrepreneurial Studies at UCLA Anderson School of Management learning quite a lot about how to start up a company, and even now I am enrolled in the MCNW Business Plan Writing course. I want to do this right.

Overall, I do not plan to be a custom framebuilder, so take it in that context. The whole bike as a system is my focus, and I think there is a lot of development yet to be done in this space. Of course, frame makers are an important part of this equation and especially any Portland-based builders are welcome to chat. I value experience.

[e-RICHIE]

I saw the article, and read some of the comments. I also remember past threads here. My advice
to you - and I mean this sincerely since I take it myself - is to not care what others think. Period.

[MrkiMedo]

Well I agree that there is something very weird with pricing of bicycles. If you want a bicycle that you can use every day, you have to pay at least $600. On the other hand, those $600 can buy chinese scooter, that has internal combustion engine, full suspension, disc brakes, order of magnitude more parts of which many have to be manufactured to much tighter tollerancies, and sustain much harsher conditions. Compared to that there should be decent bike in $300 range, but there is not.

But I am not sure I would know how to change that, even if someone wrote me a "blank check" (tm). Much less as self funded one man team.

As for the interview, I prefer that results preceede words, not the other way around.

Davorin Rusevljan.

P.s. got what is wrong with name lacking. When posting from mobile, forum does not include signature.

[crumpton]

My personal opinion is that Japanese fishing pole companies aren’t necessarily the best organizations to direct the technological advances and manufacturing processes of the bicycle industry, and it is time for an American company to step up and serve the US market and also do the manufacturing here too.

those japanese fishing pole makers have something you need. focus.

[Rayburn Shaun]

David-

If you are interested, I have an older South Bend lathe that you may have if you like at no cost. You arrange transport, though. I think your goal is a good one and I need to make room in my work space.

Only thing I'd ask in return is that you might document some of your progress here as I'm sure some of the good folks that frequent this place would enjoy seeing what you do.

Tom

[Matthew Strongin]

those japanese fishing pole makers have something you need. focus.

I'd add that the notion of them as a Japanese fishing pole maker is pretty ridiculous. As a multi-billion dollar company whose revenue is made up of 81.5% bicycle component sales* and has been in the game for 50-ish years, I'd say they're well positioned to direct technological advances of their segment of the bicycle industry. The millions of satisfied customers worldwide also points to their capability to lead the market. I'm all for people wanting to drive innovation and support their local economies, but I think you'll go a lot farther without a point of view that disparages a huge industry success story. I'd also add that wanting a cheaper, simpler, and easier to maintain bicycle is a great goal and I wish you all the best of luck in that endeavor.

*From here: http://www.shimano.com/content/Corpo...ctSheet_GB.pdf

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Matt Strongin

[mjbabcock]

I've got one word for you...


Okay, three words
Paper Mache?

Seriously, go read all of Mickey's posts from pre Spooky until today and come back with a 1 page summary of why he moved on.
Then look at the 2-300 year evolution of the modern bicycle before writing, " You still sit on a bike with two wheels and a handlebar right here and steer the same way and pedal the same way. And nobody’s tried to challenge that yet."

Bikes and bike parts evolved. I'm not one to say there won't be a paradigm shift some day, but I am one to recommend one study the past before planning the future.

[Curt Goodrich]

After reading the comments I don't really believe you're interested in hearing opinions. Congrats on getting some press.

[nash]

So you're trying to make a cheap bike with fenders, lights, and a rack. Cool! Not many of those around.

[e-RICHIE]

So you're trying to make a cheap bike with fenders, lights, and a rack. Cool! Not many of those around.

Please add a first and last name asap thanks atmo.

[nash]

Done. Sorry!

[David Lewis]

After reading the comments I don't really believe you're interested in hearing opinions. Congrats on getting some press.

I am absolutely interested. I am especially curious about what other builders think of derailleurs and what they've tried or have in mind as an alternative. Personally, I feel that the rear derailleur is essentially keeping bicycle design hostage, and even alternatives are constructed with similar specs in order to fit the same bicycle. A belted bicycle often has the same dropout spacing, etc. Why? Could we do better?

I don't see these conversations happening, and I would like to think I'm not the only one planning for the day some advancements are made in this area. I absolutely have strong opinions, and I have no fear of talking about them. I am especially interested in hearing from people who believe strongly the other way. They could be right!

[e-RICHIE]

I am absolutely interested. I am especially curious about what other builders think of derailleurs and what they've tried or have in mind as an alternative. Personally, I feel that the rear derailleur is essentially keeping bicycle design hostage, and even alternatives are constructed with similar specs in order to fit the same bicycle. A belted bicycle often has the same dropout spacing, etc. Why? Could we do better?

Your interests seem tied to commuting, the mainstream, price points, and Made-In-USA. Mine are inseparable from the sport, and making a few things for which price is no object. I rarely look at the clock too, or - as I mentioned - process what others think, about what I do, or even at all. It's worked well for a life, a lifestyle, and a profession. If you're absorbing what others do, I'm offering an example.

[David Lewis]

Your interests seem tied to commuting, the mainstream, price points, and Made-In-USA. Mine are inseparable from the sport, and making a few things for which price is no object. I rarely look at the clock too, or - as I mentioned - process what others think, about what I do, or even at all. It's worked well for a life, a lifestyle, and a profession. If you're absorbing what others do, I'm offering an example.

Thanks, and yes, I am well aware of the relationship between sport and industry, and I think it may be a contributing factor in the arrested development of the bicycle as a machine. It's almost as if there's a governing body telling people what they can ride...

I think if more bicycle builders had more input into how a bicycle functions, rather than the limited activity of building a frame to fit a specific set of parts, there would be other choices made that aren't available today. The inverse of this is the Efneo crankset, which seems like such a cool product until you find out it's limited to square bottom bracket spindles, and this seems like such a kneecapping to me. I could never consider using them, and I would like to, because they went on a mission to neuter the front derailleur and succeeded. They limited their scope to one specific interface and ignored all other options.

The recent Oregon Manifest that had 5 teams from around the country design the ultimate urban bicycle ultimately chose not to do much other than moving a few tubes around. The most important design element I saw was the Ti Cycles' headset design, which looked like an actual improvement over existing practice. The sintered frame was a cool idea too, but why did they stop at the frame?

[David Lewis]

I'd add that the notion of them as a Japanese fishing pole maker is pretty ridiculous. As a multi-billion dollar company whose revenue is made up of 81.5% bicycle component sales* and has been in the game for 50-ish years, I'd say they're well positioned to direct technological advances of their segment of the bicycle industry. The millions of satisfied customers worldwide also points to their capability to lead the market. I'm all for people wanting to drive innovation and support their local economies, but I think you'll go a lot farther without a point of view that disparages a huge industry success story. I'd also add that wanting a cheaper, simpler, and easier to maintain bicycle is a great goal and I wish you all the best of luck in that endeavor.

*From here: http://www.shimano.com/content/Corpo...ctSheet_GB.pdf

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Matt Strongin

Thanks. My grandfather died with a Japanese bullet in his chest. I guess I'm biased.

[mjbabcock]

'Resentment is like drinking poison and then hoping it will kill your enemies.'
~some guy

[Rosko]

Thanks, and yes, I am well aware of the relationship between sport and industry, and I think it may be a contributing factor in the arrested development of the bicycle as a machine. It's almost as if there's a governing body telling people what they can ride...

I think if more bicycle builders had more input into how a bicycle functions, rather than the limited activity of building a frame to fit a specific set of parts, there would be other choices made that aren't available today. The inverse of this is the Efneo crankset, which seems like such a cool product until you find out it's limited to square bottom bracket spindles, and this seems like such a kneecapping to me. I could never consider using them, and I would like to, because they went on a mission to neuter the front derailleur and succeeded. They limited their scope to one specific interface and ignored all other options.

The recent Oregon Manifest that had 5 teams from around the country design the ultimate urban bicycle ultimately chose not to do much other than moving a few tubes around. The most important design element I saw was the Ti Cycles' headset design, which looked like an actual improvement over existing practice. The sintered frame was a cool idea too, but why did they stop at the frame?

Sooooo, you are looking to design and manufacture something new that will work with everything and be completely different?

[Rosko]

Thanks. My grandfather died with a Japanese bullet in his chest. I guess I'm biased.

Soooo, you are saying you don't like components from a specific nation because of a war 50 years ago?

[Eric Estlund]

That's it- we just crossed out of jingoism masked as patriotism and into racism. I wasn't going to comment in this thread but David, there is no place for that here, and there is no room for discussion on the topic.