The Cramps

[boxerboxer]

I have a cramping problem. In general I find that if I go hard (race effort) for more than 1.5 hours or so, or just in general try to ride 3+ hrs I get pretty bad quad cramps, sometimes accompanied by ham/calf cramps.

I'm thinking hard about this because of my race experience this past Saturday. I want to at least finish respectably in 1.5+ hour events even if I don't podium on the regular.

To recap this most recent ride, including preparation:
I've got about 30 hours of riding (~750km) this year since March, mostly zone 1/2 stuff with some spinning drills, and in the last week or two some threshold workouts. Rides have been 1-2 hour duration. Might have had one around 2:30 earlier in the year.
Week of the race I got out for an easy hour early in the week and did a few hard efforts Friday morning (race was Saturday AM) to open up.

Race day up at 6:30
Breakfast at 7:30 (Ham/egg croissant, oatmeal, coffee). Curry chicken 2-bite pie (tennis ball sized pie with chicken/potato filling) about 30 minutes before the race. Between breakfast and start (10AM) I had 24 oz water that I just sipped on.

Race starts 10AM. Start drinking at 0:45 into the race. Eat a gel (gu espresso) ~1hr. I should mention that the first few minutes of racing had me breathing very hard and seeing HR numbers I'd never seen before. We don't have hills where I'm from :/ Anyway, eat another pie around 1:15, continue drinking. Around 1:30, which is about the 26 mile mark, I start cramping badly (quads) and go through several cycles of lay down, stretch, massage, eat/drink, try to ride and make it a quarter mile. At that point I'd finished my first bottle (24oz, water and 1.5 nuun tablets) and 1.5-2 of my 3 pies.

Finally I realize the cleats on these shoes are slammed way back - almost opposite my road shoes in which I've done basically all my riding this year. I sit down, adjust them forward, and air up tires which I realized were about 10psi low each. Eat half my remaining pie and drink some. I head out, not drilling it but keeping moving, drinking regularly, and about 5 out of the 10 remaining miles in finishing my last pie. Made it back without stopping.

Here's what I think are some of the issues:

1. Cleat position. Not that the position was necessarily bad, but it likely forced me to use muscles in a way I wasn't prepared for.

2. Bike choice/setup. This was done on my cross bike, and I've been on my road bike basically this whole year so far. I'm not 100% sure the contact points match up well.

3. Nutrition. I suspect I could have started eating/drinking sooner, and potentially eaten more pre-race. I will definitely avoid that much coffee (12oz) pre race as it almost caused puking when shit got hard.

4. Prep. I think the fact that I have no rides longer than 2 hours factored in. I also think the fact that I've done very little high intensity work made the hills a lot more of an obstacle than they otherwise would be.

What I'm looking for here is some advice. Obviously everyone's a little different physiologically but I want to understand what factors cause cramping and what dumb things I might be doing/not doing that make it worse.

[David Tollefson]

#3, big time. You waited WAY too long to start drinking. If this is the way you've been riding, I have no doubt you're spent by 90+ minutes.

Also, if you can stomach Cytomax, it does actually help stave off cramping. At least for me it does. Gatorade? Doesn't matter how much I dilute it, I cramp.

[boxerboxer]

#3, big time. You waited WAY too long to start drinking. If this is the way you've been riding, I have no doubt you're spent by 90+ minutes. Also, if you can stomach Cytomax, it does actually help stave off cramping. At least for me it does. Gatorade? Doesn't matter how much I dilute it, I cramp.

At what point do you start drinking? The Nuun in my bottles has more potassium/sodium, but basically no calories.

[David Tollefson]

10 minutes, tops. And at least every 10 minutes after, more often if it's hot/humid.

[KonaSS]

I am a racer and a cramper as well. Never have found a magic bullet, but some nutrition things have helped over the years. But the biggest difference maker is your #4.

It sounds like you were doing you were doing efforts that you haven't done in training. Your body was giving you a message.

[DOOFUS]

the 3-D cover on Off the Bone was the bestest


nutrition and training. you shouldn't be cramping up like that.

[BShow]

As a racer that cramps nearly every race, this is a thread in which I've got a vested interest.

This year, I'm not that fit... I've ridden a little more than you, the OP, has for this calendar year, but only by a handful of hours. The difference is that I tend to ride an hour(ish) at lunch and it's usually pretty intense. My intervals are not structured... I push the climbs and the strava segments. It's not ideal, but it keeps me interested. I space them out so it effectively becomes an interval workout.

As for nutrtion, my diet in general is pretty solid. I tend to steer away from crap; eat a lot of fruits veggies and nuts throughout the day. Dinners are typically a salad, a veggie, sweet potatoes or some type of brown rice/grain mix with a lean meat seafood or egg for some protien. Leading up to the race my last two dinners before the race are just like the others. the only rule is that I won't experiment with a new spicy dish or anything tricky - just tried and true. I also drink a lot of water. I have a 750ml bottle at my desk and fill that up a few times a day. I drink a pint or two (of water) with dinner and I drink water throughout the night when I wake up.

Morning of, typically oatmeat, banana(s) and berries. Maybe some toast with almond butter. Maybe some eggs. I'll drink a large cup of coffee - I bet 16-20oz. I'll pick at stuff throughout the day, depending upon start time. Fruit, energy bars, maybe even a sandwich if the start is late enough.

During the race, I try to force fluids early. I'm not picky, but its almost always some sort of tabs in the bottles... nuun, gu, nathan, heed, or whatever I have at the time. I'll use gels or chews as well. my races are typically under 2 hours and I'll use 2 gels.

I raced a week ago Saturday and one of my quads cramped up really bad... like the worst I've had in a long time. Its the first time I can remember my leg actually locking up and being unable to walk it off pretty directly. I had to duck walk for 40-50 yards before it loosened up enough to remount the bike and spin it out. This race, I used two packs of stinger chews, and had Nuun in my bottles. I had three bottles, one for each lap. First lap, I sucked most of the fluid down and I think I ate a couple chews. second lap, I lost my bottle early and I think that cost me. No fluids at all for lap two (~7 miles). Lap three, I picked up my bottle and sucked at least half down, right away. another quarter of it within the first mile or two of the lap. I think at that point the damage had been done. I started cramping with ~3 miles to go. My race time was just under 2 hours.

I think for the most part, its hydration and the effort being put down. I'm not convinced that changing my nutrition would solve my cramping issues.

[David Tollefson]

You may be putting too-concentrated a liquid into your stomach. Your system will shunt fluid from your blood into your stomach to dilute it so it can be absorbed, which effectively dehydrates you further.

[BShow]

You may be putting too-concentrated a liquid into your stomach. Your system will shunt fluid from your blood into your stomach to dilute it so it can be absorbed, which effectively dehydrates you further.

interesting. Is straight water better? For a 2 hour race, is there really any need for gels or chews? If overconcentration is an issue, then presumably gels/chews would exacerbate the issue, no?

[jscott]

Cramping is my superpower. In fact, it may be the thing I'm best at on the bike. Coming up the last hill at Baller's two years ago, I stood up and felt like somebody had welded my knees in the extended position. That day, I learned the true meaning of "pedaling squares."

Anyway.

I am not an exercise physiologist, but I've done a little research into the scientific literature on cramping. Summary: nobody knows for sure what causes them, though there are probably multiple causes. The two leading theories, dehydration/electrolyte depletion and neuromuscular fatigue, have their adherents, but there's basically zero high-quality primary research on cramping. Adequate hydration can't hurt, and neuromuscular power training (sprints on the bike and/or plyometrics) may help delay the onset of neuromusuclar fatigue.

This article from Sports Health in 2010 is a pretty good survey. If you want to do your own Google research, start with "exercise associated muscle cramps" and "altered neuromuscular control".

[dogrange]

Cramping is my superpower. In fact, it may be the thing I'm best at on the bike. Coming up the last hill at Baller's two years ago, I stood up and felt like somebody had welded my knees in the extended position. That day, I learned the true meaning of "pedaling squares."

Anyway.

I am not an exercise physiologist, but I've done a little research into the scientific literature on cramping. Summary: nobody knows for sure what causes them, though there are probably multiple causes. The two leading theories, dehydration/electrolyte depletion and neuromuscular fatigue, have their adherents, but there's basically zero high-quality primary research on cramping. Adequate hydration can't hurt, and neuromuscular power training (sprints on the bike and/or plyometrics) may help delay the onset of neuromusuclar fatigue.

This article from Sports Health in 2010 is a pretty good survey. If you want to do your own Google research, start with "exercise associated muscle cramps" and "altered neuromuscular control".

Thanks for the article, very interesting. I have also found that no one really knows what causes the cramps in exercise and most advice is based on best guesses. I never had cramps before, but in the last couple years I have gotten them after long rides where I was pushing it. Strangely, usually it's the inner thigh (not directly pushing the pedals, seemingly) that gets me. I've been loading up on various magnesium formulations and kneading the affected areas out, but the cramp issue still appears from time to time.

[Octave]

interesting. Is straight water better? For a 2 hour race, is there really any need for gels or chews? If overconcentration is an issue, then presumably gels/chews would exacerbate the issue, no?

Gels/chews should always be accompanied by water - if you go with them, you should up your (unsullied) water intake. The other option is to just stick to more osmotically neutral drink mixes like Skratch. I try to switch off 1 plain bottle with 1 powdered bottle, and even then I use most at 1/2 strength. For a 2hr race, depending on the conditions and the terrain, you might not need anything like this - for shorter races, taking in osmolytes like that will do more for aiding in your recovery than actually helping you during the race.

[RIHans]

Thinking that this is a lack of training / fitness issue. 30 hrs of riding in 2 1/2 - 3 months is not much, and it was all base,
or flat riding. A couple of weeks with some intensity sounds light to start a mid May race...

I also wonder why all the food for a 1.5 hr race. When fit, I would think you would have enough glycogen in your blood for this short distance if you eat a good dinner, and a easy to digest breaky with some fruit juice.

[ThomasRZ]

Thinking that this is a lack of training / fitness issue. 30 hrs of riding in 2 1/2 - 3 months is not much, and it was all base,
or flat riding. A couple of weeks with some intensity sounds light to start a mid May race...

I also wonder why all the food for a 1.5 hr race. When fit, I would think you would have enough glycogen in your blood for this short distance if you eat a good dinner, and a easy to digest breaky with some fruit juice.

My thoughts exactly. I know lots of folks who are able to race at a pretty good amateur level on 2-4 hours of riding a week, but every one of their rides is HARD. They don't go and spin at Z1/Z2 –– it's all tabatas, full-on interval sessions, hours-of-power, what have you. They all call it the "New Dad Program" for obvious reasons.

For a 90 minute race in the morning, I'm usually good with a normal dinner the night before, a bowlful of oatmeal with some PB for breakfast, and maybe some figs and a gel or two during the race itself, with two bottles. Usually I come to the finish with a bottle completely full.

[sonny]

[boxerboxer]

I can't believe this took a month. I've been waiting for it since OP.