Frame testing and Insurance requirements

[sam]

A while ago someone posted a link to a fundraiser where someone was trying to raise funds to build frame testing machines and start offering the service, while reading his marketing hype, he says custom framebuilders pay attention your insurance companies will require you have your frames tested(im paraphrasing dont feel like searching for the thread).

This is not a thread on should someone have insurance, If you are a business of any kind and dont have insurance you dont understand modern business, not to mention the needs of your clients and your family. But that has been hashed out many times.

So anyway, about a year ago I talked to Lora about insurance, I was not purchasing it at the time and still have not, I was just getting some info and cost so I could plan for everything in my business plan. One of the questions NIPC ask is are you going to submit product for astm testing. I just answered yes ,since I was just getting a quote it was not a big deal. The point of purchasing insurance grows closer so I think about stuff.

So basically unless you are building stock frames that are all the same the testing does not really apply to custom stuff, correct. Do you send in a frame to make insurance companies happy? Do you tell insurance yes-even though you have not? Or did you answer no, and they were fine with it? Does the answer affect the ability to get insurance or cost? I of course will ask these questions to Lora, but was curious to everyones thoughts on the subject of testing and its effects on insurance. And of course answer what your comfortable with sharing.

[e-RICHIE]

As far as I know (and I'll know better in a week or three when my policy renewal arises) the jargon for NIPC has remained unchanged for years, many of them in fact. When I answer the question about testing, it's filled in with information about the racing team I have been supplying/running since 1982 atmo. That experience has been my test bed, at least as far as the coverage forms have been concerned.

[crumpton]

I've been insured via NICP for over a decade, just renewed. I've never been confronted with a question regarding intention to submit to ASTM testing. I am aware of CEN but I'm unaware of any ASTM stuff with bicycles.

That said, I do my own.

[sam]

[QUOTE=crumpton;595873]I've been insured via NICP for over a decade, just renewed. I've never been confronted with a question regarding intention to submit to ASTM testing. I am aware of CEN but I'm unaware of any ASTM stuff with bicycles.

Nick, now that you say that I do not remember if she asked ASTM, CEN, etc. Either way I was asked about product testing from one of the set of standards.

[EricKeller]

It's been a few years, but I believe she mentioned that CPSC testing may become a requirement in the future so I should think about it.

eta: I didn't take it seriously. I am not concerned about first article testing, because it would always pass, and I'm not going to do a test of a population because I could never afford it.

[Mark Kelly]

On a slight tangent, for those who have submitted frames for EN14781 testing, which service did you use and would you use them again? I'll be in a position to need this in a month or two.

To address one of the points in the OP, I intend submitting a very large frame for testing on the grounds that the load is prescribed so the torques at the joints increase with size. I'm also going to deliberately "underbuild" a frame or two to try to find where the floor lies. This is if I can afford so many rounds of testing, I haven't got quotes yet.

[Jonathan]

I'm UCI approved :)

[Jamie Medeiros]

On a slight tangent, for those who have submitted frames for EN14781 testing, which service did you use and would you use them again? I'll be in a position to need this in a month or two.

To address one of the points in the OP, I intend submitting a very large frame for testing on the grounds that the load is prescribed so the torques at the joints increase with size. I'm also going to deliberately "underbuild" a frame or two to try to find where the floor lies. This is if I can afford so many rounds of testing, I haven't got quotes yet.

I have used EML before for a few frame fatigue tests and for testing seat posts.

[Jim N]

A while ago someone posted a link to a fundraiser where someone was trying to raise funds to build frame testing machines and start offering the service, while reading his marketing hype, he says custom framebuilders pay attention your insurance companies will require you have your frames tested(im paraphrasing dont feel like searching for the thread).

I posted this a month ago:
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bi...sting-machines

This is what he says.

All manufacturers, big or small, need testing - whether it is a legal obligation, quality control or for insurance purposes, you need it. That's right Handbuilders, check with your insurance company and see what they say.

[ORjon]

How many small builders get frames lab tested? I have had a lot of frames that I've built tested with mixed results. When I worked for the Big "S" almost every frame I built was destroyed by a machine, along with them a little part of me died every time.
Really light steel frames are hard to pass CEN the tests, that said I would have no problem riding then and feeling safe.
I had some problems resonantly get a Columbus Life frame to pass.