Required Reading atmo -

[e-RICHIE]

For anyone who's interested in making a frame OR making a career
making frames, Eric Estlund's words should be on your wall atmo:

Personal anecdote- like Richard and Curt, I did this for someone else before I did it on my own. I'm not sure how a single operator would go about getting the numbers up, but it was vital in my own development. When Richard suggests knocking out 20 practice joints we need to realize that is just a drop in the proverbial bucket. I reviewed a few numbers from my production days, and in a year I was looking at:
- Used 50gallons of gas flux
- Lit my torch 43,000 times
- Brazed on 55,000/ 60,000 braze ons
- Used 29,500 ft (about a 5.5 miles) of brazing rod weighing approx. 190lbs
- Brazed around 1500 single bikes, 200 tandems and 1700 or so forks

I was only in industry for a couple of years, but that is a whole lot of experience I would never be able to replicate on my own. For new folks starting out I can only suggest putting your head down and committing to getting some volume practice pieces.

[ljm]

I guess the only place to get this kind of intensive experience, these days, is in the far east. I wonder how this might affect future generations of would-be craftsmen... Perhaps more and more there will be a need to develop skills and gain experience through a more general engineering/fabrication education. That's no bad thing; I know of a number of superb framebuilders who are first and foremost, engineers. This background, I think, can help to think out of the box and to solve problems creatively and effectively.

Lawrence Moran

[Eric Estlund]

In addition to Asian production there are still companies in the US and Europe that produce bikes in quantity. Bike Friday, Co-motion, Seven, IF, Moots, etc. are all bike factories of variable size and have positions that come up. Brompton in the UK seems to always be hiring.

If you want to pursue production work as a path to the trade there are places to do it. The secret is that you need to go to them- I did, and others did as well.

[Gattonero]

Yep, Brompton is one of the very few mass-produced bikes being entirely brazed, in the UK. Labour-intensive and more expensive, but it pays back.
Surely if one wants to work by Kew Gardens, there are good chances to be involved in the real deal

[Jonathan]

Yep, Brompton is one of the very few mass-produced bikes being entirely brazed, in the UK. Labour-intensive and more expensive, but it pays back.
Surely if one wants to work by Kew Gardens, there are good chances to be involved in the real deal

Out of curiosity, how hard is it for a yank to get a job in the UK? Are there rules that require employers to look internally first? I'm guessing you need a work visa and job before one enters the country?

[ron l edmiston]

[QUOTE=Jonathan;596481]Out of curiosity, how hard is it for a yank to get a job in the UK? Are there rules that require employers to look internally first? I'm guessing you need a work visa and job before one enters the country?

------------------------

not sure today, but i worked in UK for 7 months, my early valovline days ---- just had to keep valvoline's ceo happy, have a work visa and take an oath not to piss-off any "lady-husbands.."

ronnie with memories of silence & a smile..

[Alistair]

Out of curiosity, how hard is it for a yank to get a job in the UK? Are there rules that require employers to look internally first? I'm guessing you need a work visa and job before one enters the country?

I don't have direct experience of this exactly, I went the other direction, moving from the UK to the States 20 years ago. From what I gathered in my dealings with the INS then (now known as USCIS), and speaking with others over the years about their experiences, immigrating from the US to the UK presents an approximately similar level of difficult as going the other way.

That is to say, in my experience, that it is a long, drawn out, expensive, frustrating and vexing experience that will test your patience to the limit.

That being said, if you have a skill set that is in demand, and are seeking work with a larger multi national type company (ie. one that retains it's own immigration lawyers) who are in need of those skills then I am told that things go a lot more smoothly and quickly.

Alistair.

[steve garro]

Yep, Brompton is one of the very few mass-produced bikes being entirely brazed, in the UK. Labour-intensive and more expensive, but it pays back.
Surely if one wants to work by Kew Gardens, there are good chances to be involved in the real deal

About - Curtis Bikes

British made custom and production steel bikes and frames – Shand Cycles

- Garro.

[Gattonero]

Has to be said that Brompton produces N times more bikes than Curtis or Shand.
\with an average of over 20.000 bikes per year, I think they're one of the biggest manufacturers to braze all their frames

[Eric Estlund]

Thanks, Albie- those are great names for the list. I don't have a bmx background, so its more my ignorance then intentionally leaving them out.

To Richards point about glamour- let that go out the window. I love my job, but its an actual job not an artistic gentleman's leisure pursuit. If you are trying to bust the numbers up on your own, I imagine one needs to put their head down and treat it like home work or practice drills. Lean in, get dirty and be your own worst critic.