Hole Saws

[Jonathan]

Telai-istas,
I've been using Lenox Bi-Metal saws for awhile but my latest few have been out of round by a fair amount, more than I like. I've noticed the Missouri tool ones are now out of stock. What else is out there? Is there something in between basic hole saws and the machined ones Andy Newlands makes in both quality and price? Jonathan

[Rody]

Jonathan,

You are throwing them in a lathe to straighten them up before use, yes?

Hit the top face, where the arbor sits tight, then load the arbor in the jaws and hit the main body.

I've never had a "cheap" hole saw be acceptable right out of the cardboard. Give it some love and it will return in kind.

rody

[EnginCycles]

I have found myself getting Starrett recently. The Lenox with the large chip hole seems like a good idea but the end result is a more warped saw. The other issue is the out of round saw is still at spec for the size but you are cutting with like 4 teeth so feed needs to be slower. The blue saws that are the McMaster Carr house brand saws seem to be round but not very good in the hardness department on the teeth. They break off and go dull faster than normal. The cool thing with the McMaster Carr ones is they have a deeper version in most sizes. The fine tooth saws have sucked for years. I gave up on them after I returned about 10 of them and it seemed like the same 10 got sent as a replacement.

[ToddFarr]

I've been using the starretts too the 6 pitch ones I think. They are solid for me and I've been getting excellent fitup with no need to put them in a lathe.

[sebaudet]

I'm using ultra nova hole saw, with fine teeth... they make their job well...

[Alistair]

Jonathan,

Hit the top face, where the arbor sits tight, then load the arbor in the jaws and hit the main body.

rody

Rody,

for the second part of this procedure, when the arbor is mounted in the lathe chuck, are you performing the truing op with a lathe bit (presumably it would be a carbide bit, to cut the hardened teeth), or with abrasives (Dynafile or similar) ?

Thanks,

Alistair.

[afwalker]

Sebaudet,
I liked the Ultra fine toothed one's that the USA importer Missouri Precision Tool cannot get anymore since Ultra's bankruptcy.
Missouri Precision Tools, Inc.: Rockhard HSS BiMetal Fine Tooth Hole Saws
Maybe you still can get them, stock up eh?
Jonathan, thanks for the good question,
and Rody, please also mention how you face off the top face, put the saw in the arbor backwards? this just helps it sit square on the arbor I presume. Good idea.
cheers
andy walker

[Jonathan]

Jonathan,

You are throwing them in a lathe to straighten them up before use, yes?

Hit the top face, where the arbor sits tight, then load the arbor in the jaws and hit the main body.

I've never had a "cheap" hole saw be acceptable right out of the cardboard. Give it some love and it will return in kind.

rody

No lathe here....yet.

Central Fla is a machine tool desert. 95% of Everything here is post Walt Disney World.

Ill see if I can spend some time on a Pal's smaller lathe.

[Alistair]

Sebaudet,
Rody, please also mention how you face off the top face, put the saw in the arbor backwards? this just helps it sit square on the arbor I presume. Good idea.
cheers
andy walker

Not trying to speak for Rody, but I just put the holesaw (sans arbor), teeth first into the lathe chuck. Then I face the back surface of the saw, the surface that mates with the arbor, with a HSS facing tool.

I would embed a pic of that but Flickr has made changes (again) and I'm unable to see how to grab the link for the pic, like I used to before the changes. I'm sure it's there, somewhere, but I'm not seeing it right now.

Here's a good old external link though, TIG practice. | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Alistair.

[afwalker]

Alistair,
click on the pic (3) times!!! until it goes to slideshow, then hit pause and right click to grab page source.
Your pic will work for the base squaring, thanks.
Jonathan,
all i have is a china import, but a pretty good one: LATHEMASTER9x30Lathe.htm
Does most everything. Wishing for a clausing or south bend but it's not just about me:)
cheers
andy walker

[sebaudet]

Sebaudet,
I liked the Ultra fine toothed one's that the USA importer Missouri Precision Tool cannot get anymore since Ultra's bankruptcy.
Missouri Precision Tools, Inc.: Rockhard HSS BiMetal Fine Tooth Hole Saws
Maybe you still can get them, stock up eh?
Jonathan, thanks for the good question,
and Rody, please also mention how you face off the top face, put the saw in the arbor backwards? this just helps it sit square on the arbor I presume. Good idea.
cheers
andy walker

The latest news i had was that ultra is now integrated in a big german group and they continue their activity.... But the info is from january, as my last order, perhaps a bankruptcy since ? You have perhaps more info than i have.... I will check

[Jonathan]

Jonathan,
all i have is a china import, but a pretty good one: LATHEMASTER9x30Lathe.htm
Does most everything. Wishing for a clausing or south bend but it's not just about me:)
cheers
andy walker

I've looked at many, but I really want to be able to place a headtube in the spindle bore. That's what I'm holding out for.

[devlin]

How many cuts are the hole saws getting on average? Would it not be more cost effective in the long term to get something like what Mr Strawberry makes? What does it cost to sharpen something like that? Just thinking out loud here.

[Jonathan]

How many cuts are the hole saws getting on average? Would it not be more cost effective in the long term to get something like what Mr Strawberry makes? What does it cost to sharpen something like that? Just thinking out loud here.

If they are out of round and cutting with only a few teeth they will still last awhile. When they are round they will last surprisingly long. It's also dependent on the tubing you're cutting.

[EnginCycles]

I've looked at many, but I really want to be able to place a headtube in the spindle bore. That's what I'm holding out for.

Some things to keep in mind. The "average" lathe will have a 1.375" spindle bore. This is the needed size to allow for a draw tube that works for 5C collets. It is REALLY common on many machines that fit the profile of a basic belt driven lathe. There are a few that were 1.5" spindle bore but they were less common within the American iron. When you get into gear head machines it is very common for 1.5" bore. Gear head lathes are loud, heavy and often broken unless you get into heavy iron like the Monarch, Hendey and American. These machines will weight in the ball park of 5000lbs and up. Are looking to load a headtube for facing purposes? A quality 6 jaw set tru chuck with a plain back will easily allow for up to a 200mm head tube to only stick out about 1 inch. More than proper for facing.

Look outside Florida. I have bought many machines via freight. My Monarch came from Ohio and my Harrison lathe from South Carolina. It is not a big deal.

No harm in getting a basic machine, learning (and crashing stuff) so when you get a good machine you won't destroy it because you did not know. If the machines are rare then you won't have a hard time selling it.

Sorry for the drift.

-Drew

[Alistair]

Alistair,
click on the pic (3) times!!! until it goes to slideshow, then hit pause and right click to grab page source.
Your pic will work for the base squaring, thanks.

Hmmm, couldn't get that to work either but I did realize that you can opt out of the "new photo experience". Did that and everything was hunky dory,



Cheers,

Alistair.

[Rody]

Sorry guys, been away at an IMBA conference.

Yes, I clean up the hole saw with a carbide insert...does not take too much to get the average saw nice and true, just move slowly across the body and teeth at a fair spindle speed to avoid any issues.

I normally chuck the saw up teeth first and clamp deep to clean the arbor face.

How long do hole saws last? This basic Lennox made it through 1680 miters in steel and ti before chipping a tooth...the key is proper rigid fixturing.
hole saw.jpg
Jonathan, gotta get a lathe, makes life better :)

[steve garro]

Run them through a cut & grind off where they rub on the bench grinder.
Don't over think it.
Hole saws last up to hundreds of cuts on even supertherm, or sometimes they pitch a tooth on the first few cuts = just a matter of QC.
I use either Lenox or Starrett.
I just got a 1 & 7/8" that's really good & I can't remember the brand, but it's blue.
- Garro.

[Curt Goodrich]

How many cuts are the hole saws getting on average? Would it not be more cost effective in the long term to get something like what Mr Strawberry makes? What does it cost to sharpen something like that? Just thinking out loud here.

I get 75 cuts easily from a $12 hole saw without any flood coolant or cutting oil. When the hole saw is missing more than half it's teeth I pitch it without giving it a second thought. A trip to my local hardware store and I'm back cutting tubes again. I can not see any economic model in which the expensive cutters make sense.

[Mike Mcdermid]

I've looked at many, but I really want to be able to place a headtube in the spindle bore. That's what I'm holding out for.

why? wether its stuck out the chuck 100mm or a foot the only support your getting is from the jaws d1-3 or d1-4 camlock is well sufficient

Drew showed me a picture of a 6 jaw set tru ,never knew they did a set tru in six jaws but hey i prefer a 4 jaw for pretty much everything even if i do need to clock it every time ,