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Thread: Saratoga Frameworks

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    Default Saratoga Frameworks

    I first met Richard, Josh and Darren at the Baller's Ride, it was an amazing event with like minding folks. I saw Richard momentarily at the Grand Prix of Gloucester, but we were riding in opposite directions. When I saw him again at Providence I had to swing by. After a great chat he asked if I would write a Smoked Out, and feeling honored to be asked, I said absolutely. After thinking about it a bit, I wasn't entirely sure how to write this. Should it come from Saratoga Frameworks or should it come from me? In the end I decided that it should come from me, I can really only speak about my experiences and what brought me to where I am today. At Saratoga Frameworks we are not a one-person show, but a group of talented people who truly want to build awesome bikes. Hopefully, I will be able to persuade some of the other talented individuals I get to work with every day to add to this thread and tell our story together.

    So here I go...

    I was one of the chubby kids while growing up. Between asthma, allergies and other random ailments I had my fair share of doctor and hospital visits. Trying all the typical childhood sports never really worked out for me and I wouldn't say that I had very many friends, I wasn't exactly outgoing. My family moved from Upstate New York to Southern Oregon right before my freshman year of high school - perfect timing for an awkward teenager. What friends I did have were no longer around and everything was completely new. That first year was pretty tough and I will admit that I played my fair share of Dungeons and Dragons.

    A lot seemed to change around my 15th birthday. That was when I received a "real bike" - a 1994 Specialized RockHopper. I had done all of my “research" in Mountain Bike Action and certainly was "that kid" to all of the bike shops in the area. I decided on the rigid RockHopper over the HardRock with the front suspension because I could see right through the bullshit of lower quality with bells and whistles. I took the money that was graciously given to me that year and bought the best bike I could. On the way home, I remember my step-father driving from Ashland to Klamath Falls a different way than normal. About halfway home at the top of one of the big hills he asked if I wanted to get out and ride it and that was the moment when the cycling bug bit me. Really. Freaking. Hard. I immediately started riding with the local mountain bike club and, before long, had gotten quite a bit fitter and the asthma symptoms were starting to lessen.

    Fast forward a few years…I took a job at a sporting goods chain store. The store manager (who is now the International Sales Director at Chris King) saw my interest in bikes and moved me to that department. I worked there until I went to college to study architecture at the University of Oregon. After my freshman year I spent the summer in North Carolina working for a bike shop. I was actually hired for a position the owner termed as "register bitch". That title did not last too long, as I started selling bikes and staying after to help in the service area. When I got back to Eugene the following fall I went to work for the Center for Appropriate Transport, a non-profit organization that had multiple bicycle businesses run under the same roof. At first I worked in the bike shop and then for the bike delivery service. This is where I really decided that bicycles would be forever in my life and I took the next step. A shop in Eugene offered me a trial position as a bike builder, and at first it did not go so well. They were very focused on quality, not speed, and I was not exactly measuring up. The owner basically stated that I had 2 weeks to get it together or there would not be a place for me. I really wanted to make it so I got some extra help from the guys at the shop and two short years later, I was the service manager. I took the lesson learned there to heart - quality first and foremost.

    After 5 years, my girlfriend (now wife) and I moved to Salt Lake City where I was the service manager at a small, family owned shop. Again, focusing on quality first, I was able to turn the service area into a profitable part of the business. We had 3 great years in SLC, but when it was time for a change, we headed back to New York State where I took a job with Serotta. Originally hired for Paint QC and Assembly, it wasn't long until I was working in machining, alignment, and structural quality control. I really wanted to learn how to braze, and with the help of Kelly Bedford and Brian Smith, progress was coming along nicely. I continued to practice off the clock and there came a point when Brian, who was doing the majority of the production brazing, moved full time in the CNC shop and I was the next to move up. Through the next year or so my job was full time brazing, structural QC and alignment. I was able to hone my skills from repetition and teamwork with the machinists and welders. We produced a lot of frames during those years and I am proud to think of how many Serottas are out there that I had my hands on.

    When Kelly and Serotta split there was a spot for me in design, but it’s not like I just got plopped in a chair and started pumping out custom frame drafts. I had studied the designs over the past 4 years of production and when I wasn't at work I was always thinking about, riding and researching bicycles. Ben looked over everything I did for the first 4 months or so, and we had many discussions about frame design. I realize I would never be where I sit today if it wasn't for him and what he did for the company. The next 2 years were full of highs and lows, but we never stopped striving to produce a high quality frame-set. At the company’s lowest point, I continued at work for 6 weeks without pay because I believed in the product and the people that I worked with. Unfortunately, it got to a point where I couldn’t help support my growing family so I had to walk away.

    After a few months of being away (and being finally caught up in pay) I returned to work at Serotta. During that time I had built 5 fillet brazed frames at home. I felt like I needed to be building, I could not fully walk away. I went back onto the production floor again, and had my hands in everything from mitering and bonding to alignment and structural quality control. It felt great to be back in the game with my hands on the frames.

    When Bradway Financial purchased Serotta I was asked to move back into the design roll. Thoroughly enjoying my current role, I was hesitant, but I felt like it was better for the company if I went back into the office. This would help free up Ben to try and keep moving the company forward. When Bill came on board, it began to feel like we were moving in the right direction. He brought a sense of discipline, hard work, and accountability back into the building. We were able to sponsor a few key racers and work on getting some new product out the door. One of my projects became the Pronto, a new stock geometry race bike. It was something different than we had been previously building. The project spit and sputtered due to the desire to align everything with the name on the downtube. The result - a bike that could have been a homerun and put into production in a few weeks, took over 4 months.

    At Saratoga Frameworks we are trying to keep the high quality and craftsmanship alive, but without the over-idealism. Some were surprised that we were able to get 3 new models out in such a short time, and truthfully, it was a shorter time frame than outsiders knew. Our first titanium road bike is a variation of the Pronto, with a few tweaks to make it a bit smoother to build. Our steel cross and titanium cross frames weren’t even decided upon until the flight home from Interbike, yet we showed them two weeks later at the New England Builders Ball. Everyone at the factory had to work incredibly hard to make that happen, I was proud to see it all come together. I believe it was said that we "(we) build in bikes what Ferrari builds in cars. Ferrari wouldn’t want to build some little Chevy car.” That quote hit me hard. Our new business model will allow us to keep production flow solid, with reasonable numbers, while allowing us to design and produce our own models- bikes that I am excited to represent, build, and ride. These new models we have built, the only way we know how...with quality and the others coming down the line will exude the craft that we have all learned in our cumulative years.

    Feel free to ask any questions, however I would like to move forward from the past. I was an employee of Serotta, but now I feel like an owner of Saratoga Frameworks. Thanks to those that helped me along the way...

    Stay tuned...

    Scott Hock
    Scott Hock
    No. 22 Bicycle Co.
    www.22bicycles.com

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    Default Re: Saratoga Frameworks

    Scott,

    It was a pleasure meeting you at Ballers this year and I sure as heck hope you make it in 2014. Talk to us about the bike and beer you'll be bringing.


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    Default Re: Saratoga Frameworks

    scott,

    "from the fat chubby little kid, to himself --- to your trail to & from the rainbow --- love to smile at your trials and smiles..

    nice to meet you..

    with a smile,

    ronnie

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    Default Re: Saratoga Frameworks

    I'll sit back and with a knowing nod hear all the good comments.
    Not to mention the guy is a feckin' motor on a bike.
    See you at Ballers.

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    Default Re: Saratoga Frameworks

    This was a really great S.O. Thanks!

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    Default Re: Saratoga Frameworks

    Great post Scott! It's been a blast for me getting to know you and the rest of the crew there this past year. I think the future is very bright for you guys and I look forward to seeing the product out on the road.

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    Default Re: Saratoga Frameworks

    Scott - Thanks for that. After meeting you at Baller's, hanging out with you at the races, and watching/reading
    as the sagas unfold, my take is that the right combination has finally lined up. I like what I see on your website
    and in person. Looking forward to more.

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    Default Re: Saratoga Frameworks

    Scott is very good news at the new company. He designed my last frame from about two years ago, It is a sweet ride and I also know and respect SCOTT, very much I consider him a craftsman of the highest,

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    Default Re: Saratoga Frameworks

    Hey Scott, Thanks again for buying me the Coke at the gas station. That was a long day in the saddle and that little bit of caffeine got me up the climb back to the house! Maybe next year I can stay on your wheel. See you in Nellysford!!
    NATE

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    Default Re: Saratoga Frameworks

    Thanks for taking the time to do this dude! I'm psyched to see you guys getting the chance. No one ever ever discounted the quality of the craftsmanship coming out of glens falls and Saratoga- up until the end, I think we'd all be lying if we said some of the best fabricated bikes in the world we're bring build there. But serotta failed and quite bluntly failed miserably. What are you guys going to do differently? I'm not talking fabrication here- I'm talking the stuff that allows that to happen- design, marketing, branding, finding your potential clients and making them your customers. What's gonna be different? I'm excited for you- good luck!

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    Default Re: Saratoga Frameworks

    The two new Ti/Steel CX bikes are very impressive. Here's Scott riding the run up on Sunday on the titanium version.

    P1000226.jpg

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    Default Re: Saratoga Frameworks







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    Default Re: Saratoga Frameworks

    Scott, when will we see prices? Serotta (among other problems) priced itself out of business. Will you guys have competitive prices with a direct-to-consumer?

    Also, tell us more about the contract building you're doing.

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    Default Re: Saratoga Frameworks

    Thanks to everyone for the props and feedback. It is a great to feel all the positive vibes coming our way...we are working hard to make this happen.

    @Darren- Still a bit early on the bike to bring to Ballers...but I fully plan on being there. I hear Richard really wants me to bring a specialty bike...maybe a "gravel grinder". I've been really enjoying my steel bike I built when I was off...can't wait to get some more steel out of the building. I wasn't drinking much last year at the time...maybe I'll bring some local Adirondack specialties. Ever had UBU, absolutely one of my favorites?

    @Tom- Thanks for the kind word and thanks for all of your help this season. This past weekend were my best results in cross ever...maybe it is about the bike (and the hard work!)

    @Nate- I remembered when that Coke kicked in...right when you dropped me on the last hill to the inn. I'll remember that move next year!

    @Craig- Quality, indeed, was never a concern...but execution and messaging often was. We also got to a point, I feel, where "no" was not an option. We were a large sized small build operation (hope that makes sense) with a lot of equipment and personnel and then the orders slowed. When I went to work at Serotta there were almost 30 employees...it took a lot of orders to keep all of us employed, we were averaging 12 frames a day. That number dwindled quickly and the reaction time did not match. I would really like to see us with a proven stock bike line-up with semi-custom options. I don't want to build 54 cm top tube frames with 22 cm head tubes anymore, just because you can doesn't mean that you should. There will always be the "medical fits", frames for people that may need something so radical just to be able to ride a bike. That is often times very rewarding, but there are usually performance drawbacks. I feel as though we will still offer some form of fully custom, but I really want the ability to say "no".

    As for marketing...we have just started working with a gent who is hungry...just like we are at the factory. We need to do a much better job than the previous company at telling our story, hence one of the reason's I was so honored that Richard asked me to write the post. We have been under the new banner since two days before Interbike, hell, Nick made the shirts we wore at the show the day before. So...it is still early, but I feel that we know a bit about what not to do. I have taken the cross bikes to a few events the last few weeks and the reception has blown my mind, I wish that I was faster to truly give them what they deserve. Many have put some legs over them and been quite impressed, so that feels good. I would love to get some demo's built up for people to really ride them, but again, we are very early in this process and would love some insight and constructive input!

    @ents- Those pics look familiar...thanks!

    @RoseyScot- I cannot comment too much on the contract building as not everything is finalized and often times it is up to the other party to decide if they want to release that info. There are a few large scale clients and we have been contacted, almost overwhelmingly so, by a fair amount of smaller possible clients.

    Prices are close...really close to being available. It may seem a bit backwards to release some bikes without pricing, but we are doing what we can to get everything done. We are small, and working on a lot of things at the same time and trying not to get overwhelmed. I know we will be competitive, and I would really like to have dealer relationships especially with the stock frames. The contract work does give us a great base of business so that we can still build the frames that I want to be riding and designing. It is a bit disturbing that there was all of this possible contract work available and it wasn't embraced sooner. We have quite a facility and it was supremely under utilized, but that is changing...
    Scott Hock
    No. 22 Bicycle Co.
    www.22bicycles.com

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    Default Re: Saratoga Frameworks

    ...just because you can doesn't mean that you should. There will always be the "medical fits", frames for people that may need something so radical just to be able to ride a bike. That is often times very rewarding, but there are usually performance drawbacks. I feel as though we will still offer some form of fully custom, but I really want the ability to say "no".
    Thanks for crossing that line atmo.
    Welcome!

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    Default Re: Saratoga Frameworks

    Scott, what changed on the race ti from my Pronto, beside the fork and seat collar? Also, was it the development of the S5 fork that really held it up so long?

    Regardless, really great to see this here, and great to see you moving in a very positive direction. Part of me wants to have my pronto rebadged -- maybe once I've destroyed the original decals.. (my frame pump already started wrinkling them, unfortunately)

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    Default Re: Saratoga Frameworks

    The possibility of some steel bikes from you has my interest considering your lineage that will be a good thing.
    You racing and riding those bikes adds a huge amount of value to the brand. Go man go.

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    Default Re: Saratoga Frameworks

    @ Scott - Great read and interesting background. I for one can attest to the joy and challenge of finally grabbing the reins of your own path, making it all your own and seeing your vision progress as the process unfolds. Best of luck to you and the rest of the crew at Saratoga. Looking forward to seeing more on FNL and beyond.
    Kristofer Henry : 44 BIKES : Made to Shred™
    www.44bikes.com · Flickr · Facebook · Instagram

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    Default Re: Saratoga Frameworks

    You better make sure you find a new helmet to match the shoes, glasses, gloves, and frame. The all neon look was great at Ballers last year, but the helmet by itself. . .

    Great to see you were able to stay within the industry and doing what you love. I'm hoping the other people involved land on their feet but usually if somebody is good enough to work their way up, they are good enough to handle a deviation.
    www.boydcycling.com - The Handcrafted Revolution

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    Default Re: Saratoga Frameworks

    Quote Originally Posted by ents View Post





    I would ride/race that. Not something I'd say about a Serotta, and I don't mean that as a value judgement on Serotta as a bike, other than they didn't 'do' it for me.

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