Help designing CX/road/gravel/tour/commuter/kitchen sink bike

[shirk]

Looking for some help in designing my first non mountain bike.

Currently learning how to braze, I've picked up set of Nova Slant Six OS lugs and a beefy tube set.

What I want is a bike that could get used for anything and everything not mtb. Some road training, some gravel, maybe cx race, a tour, and commuting.

I've been mountain biking since 1992 and never owned a road bike.


My wheelhouse is slack aggressive "all mountain" bikes, or by the current hot trend "enduro" bikes. Bikes with 150-160mm of travel, 66 degree head angles, and designed to do this, and yet still climb up a mountain.

Angles on the lugs are, Seat 79º, Top Head 79º, and Bottom Head 60º. I'd like to run discs as it's wet here in North Vancouver during winter and my commute eats brake pads.

Is it asking too much to have one bike that could cover everything? Road rides won't be with Cat1 hammers, most likely just solo training. Is there a bike on the market that I could just copy the geo from? In the full suspension mtb world I can read the head angle, chainstay length, seat angle and wheel base and know how something is going to ride. In my reading on here it seems you guys talk another language with the bike needing to "fit under the rider" and don't go by hard geo numbers.

Where do I start? Should I go to a road shop and get a "fit" then translate that into geo?

[NBC]

hi

i'm not going to talk about fit, as i'm really no expert on that subject

though i guess a few questions might make your question somewhat more interpretable

first, what fork are you thinking of using ? as rake and axle to crown height play a reasonable amount in your design

second, if your thinking of discs, think about the low mount disc dropouts from paragon machine works, as you won't need to purchase a disc mount placement tool for the rear atleast

third, it would probably be sensible to purchase a cheap preowned road bike to work on getting a position sorted, otherwise you may end up with a very expensive mistake when it cones to your own frame !

is it too much to ask to have a do-everything bike ? i don't think it is so much to ask, it sounds like your heading towards the lighter end of a touring bike, but with maybe the clearance for a 35c cross tyre and a fender, along with atleast rear pannier rack mounts, but that's my interpretation

the way i looked into geometry, i got fitted on my bike, then took some measurements, that created my effective position, then worked the frame angles around that, maybe i'll post some drawings of what i mean when i get some time

and remember when you finally set to your tubes and lugs, measure everything a million times, saves big headaches later on !

good luck

nathan

[blasdelf]

it would probably be sensible to purchase a cheap preowned road bike to work on getting a position sorted, otherwise you may end up with a very expensive mistake when it cones to your own frame !

bingo

and bum test rides on a few different sorts of bikes

after riding a surly and a frame with thinwall tubes back to back, you might not want that "beefy tube set" anymore

[Rich Beaudoin]

"What I want is a bike that could get used for anything and everything not mtb."

You can build that, but bear in mind that it will not be particularly good at anything.
I recently built a similar bike using the Llewellyn slant 6 lugset (which was a PITA because I had to show the lugs who's boss as Mr Sachs says). While it rides well, I still strongly prefer a road bike on road and an mtb off road.
Rich

[boomforeal]

interesting project shirky. but starting from never having owned a road bike, i think you've got a lot of research and testing ahead of you before you start on your frame

i feel that many of the same geometry ideas apply between road and mountain bikes, though some don't translate at all - short chainstays = playful and nimble / long chainstays = stable. low bb = planted, but high bb might feel a bit snappier - so you've likely got some apply-to-all-bikes preferences you can start from

as far as angles and lengths go

Where do I start? Should I go to a road shop and get a "fit" then translate that into geo?

i think that's a really good next step. there are probably a lot of places you could go but i'd recommend mighty riders - you shouldn't have a problem with the shop attitude, and in my experience ed responds really well to people who are genuinely interested in the fitting and refining process

after riding a surly and a frame with thinwall tubes back to back, you might not want that "beefy tube set" anymore

i'd second this. i have a surly travellers check i bought last year and used as a gravel road bike for 8 months in africa. its now set up with slicks and a rack for commuting duties and still gets ridden alot... but when i get out on my real road bike, i definitely notice how sluggish and plodding the surly is in comparison

[sonny]

kitchen sink

i think there's some chinese cad drawing on here with every number ever used to measure something on a bike and accommodations for every type of brake ever invented and 6 different fork designs so you can get the trail numbers just right for lowrider panniers or a dual crown dh fork all on the same bike

use that
or
buy it from some weird qbp company


in all cerealness tho
copy geo numbers from some italian company and build yourself a road bike
and do the same with a light tourer

[blasdelf]

i think there's some chinese cad drawing on here with every number ever used to measure something on a bike and accommodations for every type of brake ever invented and 6 different fork designs so you can get the trail numbers just right for lowrider panniers or a dual crown dh fork all on the same bike

Project Hunyango* : 5-in-1 bike frame

[Allan Varcoe]

I definitely agree with getting a cheap road bike to get a feel for geometry and frame material. CL typically has decent 80's and 90's bikes in the sub $300 range. (At least in San Diego)

I used those lugs with Columbus Cromor tubes for my wifes bike and with Schwalbe Marathon 32c tires it rides like you're on glass! Almost no road "noise"!

[mtg]

Shirk, did you ever end up building that frame? I'm entertaining making a similar frame for myself.

[shirk]

I have not yet built this.

I am currently riding my original first build (hard tail mtb) as a commuter. I keep joking to myself that this bike is now a 26plus with the newest Maxxis gravel grinder tire on the front, a big fat 2.5 3C DHF.

I do want to build this, but a replacement to my first suspension bike and one for the Misses are higher on the priority list.