Persons branding, brands personing, persons personing, ewheuonuo!

[Amaro Bikes]

Not really sure of what actually asking, exposing or whatevering this post is about, kind of a deformed abstraction of isolated thoughts on the "branding" related post and some deviations on sometimed felt worms.

Boring enough already. So, having in mind the already spoked approach to "branding" and how the person behind a brand defines the brand in itself, here very randomized questions:
-How dependant are one from the other? or how independent can they become?
- Person behind evolves in many different possible ways, and sometimes situations can even face this person at an opposite place to the person from the very day before in drastic-ish change. Will this mean a drastic change intself on the brand? Can the brand survive with its own personality or will definetly be defeated by the "sould" behind?
- Same way a person evolves and have a personality and approach, might it happen to the brand in itself go then the other way around being the brand (what the brand has become) the one deciding on the person behind? How much power does IT have over HIM/HER?
-Does the person behind have some kind of responsability or debts to such intangible thing as the brand?
-Does the brand have total loyalty to the person behind even if jumping from the roof?


I can see the obvious answers to such stupid questions, again, not really sure what is the question here, probably none, just opening a door and see what's out there.

I know... I know... sorry

[Too Tall]

This is very topical as I know eff'builders who live by their strong branding.
Consistent strong message that does not waiver is a good thing.
Having as much control of your media stream as possible, also a good thing.

[Amaro Bikes]

Consistent strong message that does not waiver is a good thing.

Somehow this is one of the questions, as of course "branding" gets better with a consistency on the message, but this consistency is not always strong on the person behind, as many different changes might happen, then one of the conflicts between brand-person might get into a decission line.

Obviously this might also happens in much more things in life rather than branding, from simple clothing to personal relationships, but here the question is more on how can all those "evolutions-changes-whatevers" could/should/would affect the brand, as being so much one-to-one relation from person-brand (not as could happen for exapmle in a bigger business with big structure and not just a single-personality behind).

[e-RICHIE]

It's awkward for me to have an opinion about branding, but that never stopped me atmo. I think 'branding' (in air quotes...) is an overt business tactic you can employ in order to find or create revenue streams other than the one that comes from the sale of frames. All of us are limited with regarding to how much we can produce. Surrounding yourself with a support system of goods (and ideas, and goodwill, and ______ , ) gives you a fighting chance to make a living. If done well, it also encourages folks who buy and drink from an Amaro water bottle to take a closer look at your frame and maybe buy one some day. But nothing, as in nothing, will cover up for the work you do at the bench. It pains me to add this (but, hey - why should that stop me...) but if you haven't made many frames, or made many for a good long while, I am not sure 'branding' is something worth devoting too much energy to.

[Too Tall]

Check out 44bikes. He is very ON POINT lately. 44 Bikes : MADE TO SHREDâ„¢

Somehow this is one of the questions, as of course "branding" gets better with a consistency on the message, but this consistency is not always strong on the person behind, as many different changes might happen, then one of the conflicts between brand-person might get into a decission line.

Obviously this might also happens in much more things in life rather than branding, from simple clothing to personal relationships, but here the question is more on how can all those "evolutions-changes-whatevers" could/should/would affect the brand, as being so much one-to-one relation from person-brand (not as could happen for exapmle in a bigger business with big structure and not just a single-personality behind).

[Amaro Bikes]

But nothing, as in nothing, will cover up for the work you do at the bench. It pains me to add this (but, hey - why should that stop me...) but if you haven't made many frames, or made many for a good long while, I am not sure 'branding' is something worth devoting too much energy to.

No doubts about it and I do really appreciate you always keep insisting in such important thing so we all caterpillars keep ourselves clear that there's no paint without canvas. I can understand how "annoyed" you might feel when so many newcomers try to begin the house from the roof and then even complain because the roof does not stay in place.

Anyway, as my post was absolutely no way understandable, I'll try to give more light on it. First of all, I did not refer to "branding" as an act in istelf (let's say marketing, advertising, etc, etc), but as the actual project in itself, about the bikes and how they're. I hate not being able to explain/understand many things with my limited english, but as an example, if thinking on €-you I would say "branding" as the kind of bike someone should expect, a lugged steel road bike with characteristic red paintwork. We can even take customers away from the equation, even consider it as something between you and your work, your "brand" (in fact, I seriously think is the only way of going on with it). So, independently of customers or market, the "branding" questions was more in relation to the creature emerged from your work.

And more importantly, my question was was not actually asking about myself or how to apply branding, but more curious to know if the big cats did ever got to face such a situation where their creature (the brand) and themselves reach a different point where one goes opposite to the other, from simple questions as paintwork or appearances, to even considering bespoked bicycles are no longer coherent with their perspective on life/consumption, or deciding performance road bikes does not appeal them anymore, or any other possible confrontation between what the brand has been till this day and the person behind at this very same day.

Cheers

[echelon_john]

I think there is a natural evolution between one's brand and the act of 'branding.' and a further evolution to creating a 'brand extension.' This is a very different process for small framebuilders than it is for any mass market brand for a number of reasons. I work with medium-larger sized organizations on branding, and something that I'm constantly reinforcing is that a GREAT brand isn't something that you CREATE. A great brand is something you live and bring to reality at every level of your organization. In other words, a great brand is not an artificial creation that hides flaws and presents a glossy picture to the world. This also brings up the definition of what a great brand is. A great brand isn't necessarily a brand with the most dollar value.

I don't consider Walmart to be a great brand. They have amazing penetration, name recognition, and loyalty among certain demographic groups. But their brand, as expressed in their advertising and communications, doesn't have much to do with the reality of the Walmart customer experience, or with the quality of goods they sell, etc. Same with McDonalds, Coca Cola, and most cigarette and alcohol brands.

Apple is an example on the other end of the spectrum. Love them or hate them, their brand rings true with the customer experience at every level, whether you're in the store, online, using iTunes, etc. Their products and services are built around simplicity, design excellence, ease of use, and integration into one's electronic life. Not surprisingly, these same attributes are what support their brand. There's no dissonance.

For framebuilders, I think the concept of eliminating dissonance between the customer experience/product and the expression of the brand is a really big key to success. This sounds simple, but it isn't. There are plenty of brands within cycling--and frame building--that don't achieve this syncronicity. This is an issue that probably wouldn't have been notable even 20 years ago. Before the explosion of the Internet, the quality of the work, and the word of mouth that it generated, essentially built the brand. Now, the photography, the blog, the process shots, the persona of the builder as expressed in public online interactions, etc. all come into play. For a one man shop, this can be an incredible opportunity--and an incredible demand on time and resources. In a sense, anyone building bike frames solo or in a small shop also must now be at least somewhat versed in writing, photography, web design/blogging, event planning, etc.

[e-RICHIE]

Quickly - I am not annoyed, just sharing thoughts as fast as possible while still working at the bench. Read my other Atmo bis post about the B word. Branding is nothing more than telling folks about yourself, what you think, and maybe even fencing yourself inside your myopia. The water bottles, the soft-goods, the armored trucks, the handlebar tape - these are just things to make money on. It is a business, after all.

Make frames. Make more frames. And tell people how you feel about what you make. I think there's a real contrast between the brand folks consider you to be and the actual branding that you do to cast out your net. You can control a brand, but not a reputation.

Once Upon A Time | RICHARD SACHS CYCLES

No doubts about it and I do really appreciate you always keep insisting in such important thing so we all caterpillars keep ourselves clear that there's no paint without canvas. I can understand how "annoyed" you might feel when so many newcomers try to begin the house from the roof and then even complain because the roof does not stay in place.

Anyway, as my post was absolutely no way understandable, I'll try to give more light on it. First of all, I did not refer to "branding" as an act in istelf (let's say marketing, advertising, etc, etc), but as the actual project in itself, about the bikes and how they're. I hate not being able to explain/understand many things with my limited english, but as an example, if thinking on €-you I would say "branding" as the kind of bike someone should expect, a lugged steel road bike with characteristic red paintwork. We can even take customers away from the equation, even consider it as something between you and your work, your "brand" (in fact, I seriously think is the only way of going on with it). So, independently of customers or market, the "branding" questions was more in relation to the creature emerged from your work.

And more importantly, my question was was not actually asking about myself or how to apply branding, but more curious to know if the big cats did ever got to face such a situation where their creature (the brand) and themselves reach a different point where one goes opposite to the other, from simple questions as paintwork or appearances, to even considering bespoked bicycles are no longer coherent with their perspective on life/consumption, or deciding performance road bikes does not appeal them anymore, or any other possible confrontation between what the brand has been till this day and the person behind at this very same day.

Cheers

[crumpton]

Make frames. Make more frames. And*edit* and after you have done it enough you will know what to*edit*tell people how you feel about what you make.

if one doesn't have a metric ton of frames under their belt, this is all they need to know about branding.

[fortyfour]

Check out 44bikes. He is very ON POINT lately.

Thanks too tall. That made my day.

To answer Amaro's question/s I'll take this direction: (and keep in mind, none of this is written in stone as it is merely subjective opinion)

If a business holds a person's name, and that business owner is of the same name, I'd say then yes, that brand has a bit of a need to stick to it's guns in terms of reflecting the ideals of that builder within reason. When changes are performed that are broad sweeping, you will lose some people, and gain others and maybe retain some, or retain all depending to what degree the change embodied. As the business grows, so do you and you also change. The business slowly changes as it matures as you mature too. The branding should reflect that evolution in the very least for relevance sake.

Business's that do not hold the owners name sake as the company trademark, have a bit more flexibility I would say. You get to make something literally out of nothing and pick and choose what tact you want to take and not necessarily feel beholden to your own family name. You're able to carve out certain aspects and play up on ones that maybe you wouldn't feel so comfortable with if it was literally your name on the down tube. This tact has afforded me a bit of distance and separateness in some aspects but at the same time, it really affords me a layer of closeness and personalization. It's still me, but I get to pick and choose what aspects of myself I wish to bolster while still holding my own identity beyond the brand. "At the end of the day", you're still investing in me as your builder, but the brand you see is what I've conjured and chosen to portray and build upon. And for the builder with their name on the down tube, I don't see this same line of thought as a problem either.

What I would recommend to anyone with their name on the down tube or something that is representative of an ideal on the down tube would be to put what you put out there through a filter. Not everything has to be revealed and not everything needs to be told. It is important to tell your story in some fashion, pick and choose aspects you want to embody, and build upon that. Holding back also can entice, and keeping some of those things closest to you reserved just for the paying clients.

"Consistent strong messaging" is not necessarily words or things that are written. It's as much words as it is visuals. It's tone. It's color. It's story. It's feel. It's emotion. The best way for me to explain this is through your business card: What you hand to someone should have everything that your website/business has, only channelled, chopped and funneled into your card. It's a spark or catalyst for a conversation. The card should represent the brand and give someone that small "peek" behind the curtain of creativity that you embody. Now take that business card and put it beside the website. That card is a snippet of what the website expands upon. The website now gives you that opportunity to tell that story in depth. The blog isn't a jump to a different place. It's consistent with the website. Same with any of the other social media sites (flickr, tumblr, facebook et all - some social media outlets are more restrictive than others naturally so you do what you can to stay consistent). Now line up the business card, next to the website next to one of your bikes. That feel you're after should have some consistency of message, emotion and visual. (ideally) And the website, business card, blog et all should have started with the product, i.e. : your custom bicycles. That's creating a: "consistent, strong message".