On Branding atmo -

[Amaro Bikes]

Anything that makes them think or try harder, even if it's on a dare, could be a good thing.

It does, damn sure it does.

[Amaro Bikes]

Well for me client staifaction ranks 1st with mine a 2nd.
Although I guess if it doesn't satisfy me they don't get it.
- Garro.

I prefer the second part (if it doasen't satisfy the builder then it does not go out) as many times customer feels really satisfied with a non fully satisfying product. Probably as a builder you are never satisfied enough with the product as you know every small imperfection and it's somehow a sound procedure to alwys feel insatisfied with the result as this is one of the most powerful fuels to keep on the bench trying to improve the last frame.

If satisfaction is led to customer might result on a more static/relaxed builder position. If satisfaction is a personal question between the builder and his work, customer's satisfaction will be just a natural consecuence (of course, if customer does agree with what the builder offers, and here we go again into the loop of builder/person/work/brand)

[crumpton]

ring ring...ring ring... please press one to update your free google......

i am about to unplug my phone and only take orders through mental telepathy.

[david]

having spent my entire career in branding, i can tell you that we branding guys are all too good at taking simple things and making them complex. lotta bs in this biz. it's one of the things i hate about my industry. so in the interest of simplification, i'll throw out some very basic thoughts on branding. not intended to teach or steer anybody in any particular direction. just some thought starters.

on the belief that branding is the opposite of substance.
i often come across people who hold the belief that branding is something to use as a crutch or to make up for some sort of deficiency in quality or substance. sure, we can all think of brands that are little more than fluff and image. but that's not the rule. bmw has great branding and great products. apple also. there are plenty of examples.

if you have a story, why keep it to yourself?
if you stand for something, if you really believe in something, why wouldn't you want to share that with others? what's the harm? if you stand for quality, attention to detail, craftsmanship, why not let others know? if you believe in a particular approach to riding (grant petersen, for example) why not talk about it? if i were buying a frame from you, i'd love to know how you feel, what drives you, what makes you different, unique, better. what makes you proud? what pisses you off? it wouldn't take away from your product, it would add to it. of course, it takes time to craft your story and it might take some money to share it. but there's value in that story. if you're willing to invest in the telling of your story, it will likely pay off.

don't just tell me about your product, tell me what it means.
steve jobs not only had a passion to build products that were the best in his category, he also had an enormous passion for telling people about those products. and his brilliance was not simply in telling people what his products did or how well they were made, but what they stand for - what they mean. apple's "here's to the crazy ones" is, in my mind, a wonderful expression of apple's purpose and mission. in many ways, it says far more than any spec sheet could. i believe apple makes a better machine than dell because i believe steve jobs cares more about what those machine are intended to do than michael dell does. to paraphrase gary, steve jobs identified a common, meaningful and differentiated emotional territory. and he communicated it in a relentlessly consistent and resonant way. to me, that's really the highest form of branding.

from transactions to relationships
thinking about brand building as relationship building was mentioned earlier. this is a valuable advice. to think of customers as transactions is short sighted. if you can develop a relationship between your brand (you) and your customer, you can create a long-term bond that can help lead to repeat purchases as well as something potentially far more valuable - advocacy.

to create a relationship, you need to establish some common bonds and beliefs - a connection. it's hard to do that unless you're willing to put yourself out there, to tell your story and stand up for what you believe in. if you prefer to let your product speak for itself, if you'd rather make the consumer do all the work, don't be surprised if your competition comes along and steals your prospects right out from under you. you could be the most wonderful man/woman (trying not to be sexist) in the world, but if you sit at a bar and expect the women/men to do all the work to discover how great you are, well, best of luck to you.

what IS your story?
it's hard to tell your story if you don't know what it is. often, we help clients figure out what their story is by helping them explore the different types of stories they could tell. again, we're not making stuff up, we're trying to dig into what they stand for and believe in, what makes them special, and then help them identify what route to take and how best to articulate that.

compare rapha and assos. the assos story tells a product story - innovative materials, exceptional fit and finish, unparalleled comfort. i don't really love their ads, but i understand their story. the rapha story, on the other hand, seems to be not only about the quality of their product, but also about the quality of the product experience. this is something we encourage clients to think about. whether you love or loathe rapha's branding, you have to give them credit for identifying a product experience story that's meaningful to a significant segment, is told in a well-crafted and consistent way, and is unique. they've added value to the equation.

branding is more than just your brand mark.
in it's most basic form, branding is little more than stamping you logo on your products, your website, your business card, etc. when my clients say, "we need to increase the branding" they're really saying, "make the logo bigger." but what i wish they were saying is "make the brand more meaningful."

i've been in meetings for the last two days and i'm a little burned out so let me leave it at that for now.

[crumpton]

that one ^ Spot on IMO. thank you!

[e-RICHIE]

Don't shoot the messenger atmo -
Know your brand and protect it - KansasCity.com

[Tristan]

so in the interest of simplification, i'll throw out some very basic thoughts on branding.

Thanks for your input David. I'm sure there are as many answers as companies - but are there any guidelines of how much time and money (maybe a % of sales / margin?) should be spent on the initial and then continual development of the brand? I'm thinking in a typical micro-business of one to four employees like a typical framebuilding (or wheelbuilding) company present on this forum.

[steve garro]

Probably as a builder you are never satisfied enough with the product as you know every small imperfection and it's somehow a sound procedure to alwys feel insatisfied with the result as this is one of the most powerful fuels to keep on the bench trying to improve the last frame.

Drives me crazy, Man - drives me crazy.

I thought about this over the last couple days, and no matter what you think of it I think the best "Branding" example as per what you are putting down is Jeff Jones.
Like his stuff or not, his name has a picture attached to it.
Matt Chester was hitting it too, but...............

Been trying for a long time to solidify what people think of as a "Coconino"
I have a bike review coming up & as I have closed my queue this will represent what my "New" offering will be, So..........?
- Garro.

[steve garro]

garrohr.jpgIMG_0866.JPG

I'm not sure I see anything that would make someone who doesn't know me want one of my frames.

I suggest starting young.
I've been trying to promote myself for 25yrs as I knew I was stuck in some facet of this forever.
I'm getting Osa out there as much as possible as well, she's starting her own brand as soon as she stops growing. - Garro.

[Human Epic Jolt]

bowie duet. bowie wins.

[e-RICHIE]

bowie duet. bowie wins.

I am going to quote you so that it's cached -
keep the lightheartedness in the classifieds and OT forums atmo.
Hey, thanks.

[Amaro Bikes]

Drives me crazy, Man - drives me crazy.

Sorry Steve, did I say something wrong or annoying?

[steve garro]

Sorry Steve, did I say something wrong or annoying?

Naw, I'm just crazy.
Carry on.
I like your intent.
- Garro.

[David Tollefson]

Sorry Steve, did I say something wrong or annoying?

At the risk of putting words in Steve's mouth, I think what he meant what that it drives him crazy to know every flaw in the frames that go out the door; that he's never 110% satisfied with his own quality.

[steve garro]

At the risk of putting words in Steve's mouth, I think what he meant what that it drives him crazy to know every flaw in the frames that go out the door; that he's never 110% satisfied with his own quality.

Perfect translation.
Sorry, I forget that most others do not speak Garroese
- Garro.

[Amaro Bikes]

i got it now... My bad english, being feverish and usual losts through 1001110101s made me doubt if i said something unappropiate...
i'll have to improve my garroese! :o

[Dornbox]

Shop Credo.
- Garro.

I remember those days on the 10.... SoCal blood still pumps through this heart.

[Dornbox]

<SNIP> it drives him crazy to know every flaw in the frames that go out the door; that he's never 110% satisfied with his own quality.

+1 Amen.

[e-RICHIE]

Adding to this b-word discussion atmo -

You Must Be Able To Sell, Too | RICHARD SACHS CYCLES

[Dallas Tex]

Adding to this b-word discussion atmo -

You Must Be Able To Sell, Too | RICHARD SACHS CYCLES

That is a home-run. I tell this same thing to folks that are about to spend their life savings to 'tool up'.

This, as well as the recent 'margin' thread, are the things that people don't think about when they dive into this pond.