Someone Else's Musings On My Trade atmo -

[e-RICHIE]

J.P. Partland has been writing for the industry for two decades, maybe more atmo.
His recent text is making the rounds.
Here, have a read - Chain Oil - The NAHBS Yawn

I saw the chat surrounding it and am adding this:

I think it's a good article, and not at all negative atmo. J.P. is a professional writer and he's holding up a mirror. Perhaps some don't like what they see. Some - especially some with no skin in the game - may feel he is condescending, or even judgmental. I don't. A lot of what he writes IS true despite that some segments would prefer he kept his POVs to himself. I don't think he's airing laundry. Or being incendiary. The text is a very good overview of where the niche is now, and how the NAHBS show is part of it.

[SteveP]

good piece.
he is right. it is, largely, an art show.

[theflashunc]

I know I'd be curious to see a report on just how that Ogre from this year's show rode.

[funcrusher]

i don't think it is any different than an auto show or a fashion show...f-builders, car makers, fashion designers are showing CONCEPTS...some might actually trickle down to mainstream usage, but that isn't the point

it is a matter of pushing the envelope and creating excitement that will have an effect on defining the brand

after nahbs every year, i always want a new bike...not any of the crazy concept bike, but a new one nonetheless...

not sure what the mystery is

[bellman]

One thing is for sure, the obligatory post show blah report from a random source gets better written each year........

[e-RICHIE]

One thing is for sure, the obligatory post show blah report from a random source gets better written each year........

J.P. is anything but random atmo. He has been a career journalist for the trade and the sport for a very long time.

[Mabouya]

I agree with Partland. I'm no expert in the biz, just a good customer, and I've only attended one show (Indy), but came away from that thinking that way too many of the bikes were just for show, nothing I'd be interested in riding. I've said it before, but who knew that for so many builders out there building a super-fancy cargo bike is the absolute pinnacle of their craft?

[bellman]

J.P. is anything but random atmo. He has been a career journalist for the trade and the sport for a very long time.

To be clear, Its the inevitable type of post post show that someone always writes somewhere that I was talking about. I was'nt specifically targeting the author here.

[Dorman]

After walking around the show most of the weekend I would have to agree with the article. As a blatant example I recall seeing a wooden bicycle with a custom big chainring that had to be 75 or more teeth and a normal 39 small ring. Front der. cable taped to the seat stick (wood) with no front der. and a standard rear der. I don't care how pretty it is. It couldn't function even if you made a custom front derailleur. There were a lot of really nice functional bikes (not taking ride quality into account), but some of this stuff needs to be edited out of the show for sure.

[RickM]

After walking around the show most of the weekend I would have to agree with the article. As a blatant example I recall seeing a wooden bicycle with a custom big chainring that had to be 75 or more teeth and a normal 39 small ring. Front der. cable taped to the seat stick (wood) with no front der. and a standard rear der. I don't care how pretty it is. It couldn't function even if you made a custom front derailleur. There were a lot of really nice functional bikes (not taking ride quality into account), but some of this stuff needs to be edited out of the show for sure.

Do builders of what might be called more "serious" bikes see the bikes like the one you describe as being the bicycle equivalent of, say, and Arlen Ness motorcycle or an Ed Roth hotrod? Conceptual Art, (ugh!) pieces that may be visually stunning, thought-provoking, but ultimately not the one motocycle/car/bicycle you'd want to own for any sort of real use?

Brutally honest self-examination with the most jaundiced of eyes is a critical component of running/growing/steering a business. Good on the collective Handbuilt crowd for engaging in these types of dialogues.

[Dorman]

I used to have a lot of dealings with the street rod crowd when I was in the car business. Some of those are beautiful and drive pretty nice. Others not so much, but at least they can be used.

I keep my Les Paul in a humidity controlled environment as much as possible. Not really gonna happen with a bicycle.

[spopepro]

I don't disagree with the author, but maybe it's a touch unfair to criticize a show for not satisfying an the question he wants to ask which is "does it ride correctly, sometimes over long distances/periods of time?" It would be like wondering what all of the "models" hanging out at interbike have to do with the nutrition of the bar samples they are pushing. You know why it happens, and if you're inteligent, you filter it out and find what you need. It's a show, which is both good and bad.

And it's mostly uncurated (not a builder, don't know how accurate that statement is) and is therefore what the builders choose it to be. I loved Paul Sadoff's choice to not take a single new bike last year. Builders should show the image of how they want to be perceived. And if that's building an non-rideable bike, can that just be on them, and not on the industry?

[pdxmech13]

"It would be like wondering what all of the "models" hanging out at interbike have to do with the nutrition of the bar samples they are pushing. "

Models have been hard to come by at Interbike over the last few years unfortunately.

[j44ke]

In all the reports, the hardest bikes to find photographs of are the ones that are the most functional. As someone who didn't go to the event, I often find myself looking at the bikes in the backgrounds of photographs, rather than what is in the foreground. So on the surface, it appears that the tour-de-force bikes give the builders a marketing edge. But I would wonder how many actual orders result from those showboat bikes versus Winter, Shamrock, Hampsten, Strong, etc.

My sense is the show gets bigger every year. That's great. Bigger attendance is important. But if the number of attendees increases while the number of orders that result from the show doesn't keep pace, then the event risks becoming the cul-de-sac mentioned in the article. Or a fleshy re-enactment of Facebook. That's something that has happened to literature (the "serious" non-popular kind.) Conferences are basically a bunch of worker bees in a greenhouse without flowers exchanging email addresses. Lots of writers but no readers, lots of books but no buyers. But everyone is happy, there are lots of people, and everyone sees their friends and goes home.

Not bad thing, you know? Nice to see friends and hang. Just not sure it is going anywhere. A NAHBS Fondo might sell more bikes?

[echelon_john]

No need to slag the Interbike models there, fella.

[d_douglas]

After walking around the show most of the weekend I would have to agree with the article. As a blatant example I recall seeing a wooden bicycle with a custom big chainring that had to be 75 or more teeth and a normal 39 small ring. Front der. cable taped to the seat stick (wood) with no front der. and a standard rear der. I don't care how pretty it is. It couldn't function even if you made a custom front derailleur. There were a lot of really nice functional bikes (not taking ride quality into account), but some of this stuff needs to be edited out of the show for sure.

Yes, there were too many wooden bikes. I know that from an engineering standpoint, it is possible and Calfee has stood behind this for a decade or more, but come on, wooden bikes?

I am one of those people who attended, had show bike, packed it up and took it home. It will be ridden a lot. In fact, I will probably sell my MTB now that I have this CX bike.

I think the article was quite astute.

[andys]

Late to thread as usual but I couldn't disagree with the article more despite the author's credentials. Yes some builders are expressing themselves in occasionally unfortunate ways (weird shaped top tubes or god forbid the dreaded double top tube) or in over the top artistic manner not unlike concept cars of the 1960's (wood bikes, funny bikes, chrome, metal flake), but there has been less and less of the carved lug, art investment type of bikes in the recent shows. Is he saying that these bikes are not to be ridden or are failed attempts at bringing something of value to the market? He must have seen these while at the show: Calleti baller bike, Soulcraft, Hampsten, Sycip, Inglis, Gaulzetti, RS, Della Santa (last year), Strong, Crumpton, Alliance, Level, Zullo (I brought mine home last year, rides amazingly), Merlin, Breadwinner, Ellis, Cielo, Dean, Kish!! (what sweet no nonsense bikes and people)? In an earler thread someone was complaining about a complete Breadwinner costing $4K. What??!! A piece of shit 105 bike from china price points at close to $2K now. $4K for a well appointed custom geometry bike built by Ira Ryan and Tony P is a fine deal, give me a break. I have less than$3.5K in my custom for me Zullo, Columbus Spirit and Campy Athena. These are real bikes, meant to be ridden, and more often than not at reasonable prices.

Where was Kirk by the way?

[Mark Kelly]

some builders are expressing themselves .... in over the top artistic manner not unlike concept cars of the 1960's (wood bikes, (etc)

I object to being tarred with this particular brush.

Wood is an excellent material from which to make bicyles, it's just very, very hard to do it well. For me, that's a challenge I'm happy to accept.

The wood is there for sound structural and acoustic reasons, besides my wife will tell you I have the aesthetic sensibility of a housebrick.

[liberacefanboy]

Yes some builders are expressing themselves in occasionally unfortunate ways (weird shaped top tubes or god forbid the dreaded double top tube) or in over the top artistic manner not unlike concept cars of the 1960's (wood bikes, funny bikes, chrome, metal flake), but there has been less and less of the carved lug, art investment type of bikes in the recent shows.

Seeing that I had a "dreaded double top tube " bike with a lot of metal flake there, I really felt compelled to kinda respond to this.
While this may not be the best place to address this, I just have to.
What is it with the attitude that if it is not hand carved lugs, it is an "over the top, un- ride able fluff" type of bike? What makes hand carved lugs the standard of what some people consider"custom"?Is there not more than that??
I have done this for 20 years, made many lugged bikes at CROLL CYCLES, and now I serve the people who love to ride, but no one makes the bike they want. They want flake, originality , flames, fat bikes, something unique, more than what I can do with lugs realistically .Some times, lugs restrict how you can build a bike, and who you can build it for. SOMETIMES.
When i see a hand carved lug bike, that I know the builder has 30 plus hours into it, or some crazy polished lugs, that have over 40 hours into the bb shell alone, why is this not considered fluff?? How is that anywhere near being profitable? How do you even charge for that ??
The people who I build for love what I do, and would never consider it to be unfortunate.
Why is it that this seems to be an underlying attitude in certain circles?
I make bikes. You may not like them . I make bikes for the people who order them from me. I worked on production lugged bikes , and the occasional customs ones that were ordered. I love making them all, but now I am free to do what I want to do, and do it for those who want it. They are out there, and they love it.

I really dont think that there has been less of the carving custom stuff there, its just more subtle and flowing, not so drastic, thats just my observation.

[Eric Estlund]

My biggest sticking point about the original article is that it was criticism of the show posted on Feb 18th.

Yup- 4 days before the actual show.

To quote from the piece: "But for the rest of us, somebody please give us some steak instead of endless sizzle". This article was criticizing last years sizzle before ordering from this years restaurant.

I feel like the "show" bikes get a lot of coverage, but I also feel like people are choosing to see them as a bigger part of the show then they are so that they can more easily point a finger at what they don't like. All that is well and good, but I can't understand why these same fingers are not being pointed at the sea of quality rides there. I have my own bones with shows, but a lack of market relevant bikes isn't one of them.

The author wrote: "It’s striking to me that as carbon fiber and electronic shifting are sending bike prices skyrocketing, custom builders aren’t using this as a moment to show their relevance. Surely a great bike from a custom builder and outfitted with top-shelf parts can deliver a great ride at a competitive weight and a price that can beat out lots of mold-made carbon bikes these days. It would be great to see these bikes treated as such."

I can only speak to my own work, but this is exactly what I brought: bikes that I have a market for that the big guys won't touch, and bikes that I believe compete with the big three while offering something they can't. To quote a client who's bike I delivered at the show: "It's lighter then my ti bike and stiffer then my carbon- it's perfect and just what I wanted".