Espresso machines

[Mark Kelly]

Had an interesting experience yesterday at Coffee Chakra in Myrtleford (it's run by Vik who used to work at Bright Brewery, he's well worth a visit for any Aussie salonisti on their way to Bright).

Vik had me try two doppii ristretti he pulled using a new roast he'd made that day. I knew they were both the same coffee but nothing else.
#1 was really intense, dominated by a character that reminded me of the dried bitter orange peel used in Witbier.
#2 was quite different: slightly less intense but more complex, the orange peel character was still there but less dominant.

Turned out #1 was 22g, # 2 was 21g. No other changes. Mind = blown.

Pulled a double myself using the same coffee at home this morning, I can only fit 18g into the portafilter for the Sylvia. Mine was about 80% of Vic's second effort. I have work do do: for now I'm blaming the grinder.

[boxerboxer]

Rancilio makes a Silvia portafilter that takes a triple basket. Unfortunately the triple doesn't fit the stock basket.

[lukasz]

The type of bean will have an effect on crema. Single-origin stuff will usually have barely any and will taste more tea-like. Blends will generally have more crema. Not sure which types/origins are best known for making good crema.

[dashDustin]

The trailer at nats was Trophy. I spent a good hour floating through various instagrams and finally found a vid that showed its a-frame.

Picked up some Cuvée Meritage last night from their shop. Also had them pull a shot for comparison sake. The flavor was similar but they got the nice, rich crema. I pulled a shot this morning with the beans purchased last night, and couldn't get it. Think I'm going to weigh my shots and see what's up. Betting my weight is high. Wonder if that could do it?

[Cookietruck]

try loosening yr grind just a bit

[justinf]

Update: we did NOT love the Silvia. It was not a substantial improvement over the Saeco; in fact, we found that it's easier to get nice crema on the Saeco without some serious effort in getting to know the Rancilio. We returned it.

Now, I'm thinking maybe step up to a Quickmill Anita or something similar.

[oldguy00]

I never liked my Silvia either. Step up to a Rocket Giotto. You'll love it. :)

[justinf]

ok I'll check it out!

[boxerboxer]

ok I'll check it out!

I think the grinder is probably holding you back more than the machine, fwiw.

[bgav]

Silvia is a solid machine for the money if the OPV is set correctly and you learn how to temperature surf or put a PID on it. Focus more on taste quality of the shot than the appearance of the crema.

[oldguy00]

What kind of grinder were you using?
You do need a good grinder, but my own experience with the Sylvia didn't seem to be grinder related. I tried using two different grinders with it, a Rocky, and a Baratza Vario. I used a bottomless portafilter, did temp surfing, measured out grinds, etc etc. Over the course of a year+, I could never get consistent results, and it was rare that I got a shot that looked good coming out of the portafilter. I also had the same sort of experience trying to steam on it, very difficult to get good microfoam texture.

When I got my Rocket Giotto Premium V2, I had a good idea of where to set the Vario grinder from online resources. i filled the machine the first time, let it warm up, and I kid you not, very first shot was the best I'd ever pulled, looked like the great shots you see people pulling on youtube. And then I steamed milk, and again, perfect 'wet paint' milk that poured perfect and pooled on top.

The Sylvia seems to have a bit of a cult following, some people like the fact that they have to really toy with it to get a result, and then have to do it different the next day, because the machine isn't consistent. Then they spend 200-300 on a PID for it, etc. Why bother.

[sjauch]

Hi have a Silvia with PID (would not have bought this without) and a rocky grinder. I had it for 6 months and was trying to figure things out and my shots were hit or miss. This January I took a one on one espresso class. Totally worth it. My shots are consistently good and if they're off I know what steps to take to sort things out.

So I'm guessing it's not so much your equipment but knowing what to do with it. I took my class with Toby's Estate here in NY. Might want to look into something like this before spending more cash to upgrade your machine.

[sevencyclist]

Just purchased a Rocket Cellini V3 for my wife for Mother's Day. Rocket Espresso Cellini Premium Plus V3 | Whole Latte Love - People Passionate About Coffee!

Now need to look at an affordable Grinder. Any recommendations for $100 range?

[bgav]

Just purchased a Rocket Cellini V3 for my wife for Mother's Day. Rocket Espresso Cellini Premium Plus V3 | Whole Latte Love - People Passionate About Coffee!

Now need to look at an affordable Grinder. Any recommendations for $100 range?

Baratza Encore.

[Octave]

Just purchased a Rocket Cellini V3 for my wife for Mother's Day. Rocket Espresso Cellini Premium Plus V3 | Whole Latte Love - People Passionate About Coffee!

Now need to look at an affordable Grinder. Any recommendations for $100 range?

Honestly, with a rig that nice buying a grinder for that inexpensive would be borderline sacrilege. Most agree that at least 25% of your overall budget (usually closer to 35-40%) should go to a grinder. Cheap grinders make awful espresso and lead to lots of problems in pulling a good shot. Based on that setup you've acquired, I'd expect to spend $300+ for a grinder just to get into the ballpark of "good."

Here's a nice breakdown.

For what it's worth, I use a Mazzer Mini, which I picked up lightly used for $350. Worth every penny - I was previously using a Baratza Maestro and the difference in my shots was astounding.

[oldguy00]

Uh, hate to agree, but if you are only spending $100 on a grinder, then you may as well have bought a $100 black and decker espresso machine.
I have a similar machine to what you bought, a Rocket Giotto V2 Premium. These are great machines, but you need a good grinder. The most affordable that offers excellent grind, IMHO, is the Baratza Vario at about $400. This is what I went with.

[sevencyclist]

Thanks for the recommendations. Currently we use a Krups espresso machine from 1994 and a $30 Cuisinart coffee grinder, so we want to upgrade the whole setup.

I know we need to invest in a good grinder, but will need to space out the purchase to reach that nirvana at a later date in piecemeal fashion. So that is why I got a great long term espresso machine first, and I want to get a grinder that is passable for a year or two, hopefully to splurge for that Mazza Mini at $800 in a year or two when the sting of the espresso machine wears off.

If the $100 machines such as Baratza Encore is really not sufficient and won't make a huge difference compared to the $30 Cusinart, then we can hold off and save that $130 and put it to the Mazzer fund. Thoughts?

[oldguy00]

Thanks for the recommendations. Currently we use a Krups espresso machine from 1994 and a $30 Cuisinart coffee grinder, so we want to upgrade the whole setup.

I know we need to invest in a good grinder, but will need to space out the purchase to reach that nirvana at a later date in piecemeal fashion. So that is why I got a great long term espresso machine first, and I want to get a grinder that is passable for a year or two, hopefully to splurge for that Mazza Mini at $800 in a year or two when the sting of the espresso machine wears off.

If the $100 machines such as Baratza Encore is really not sufficient and won't make a huge difference compared to the $30 Cusinart, then we can hold off and save that $130 and put it to the Mazzer fund. Thoughts?

My reply might have been a bit harsh... :) You can probably get away with, and get decent results, with the Baratza. I wouldn't let that delay you in using your new machine. Just know that when you eventually upgrade to a better grinder, you will likely get more consistent shots, and possibly better tasting shots (subjective...).

Enjoy the new machine.....as I said, these Rocket machines are really, really nice!!

[Tristan]

We've got one of these for our Rocket. I'm not a trained barista but the consistency of the grind is very good, the steps are close together, and if you're paying attention you can pull a very nice shot using it. I think they're about US$200. I'm not going to say it's as nice as some pro-level grinder but it's worked well in our office for a couple of years now.

https://www.sunbeam.co.nz/Coffee-and...e-Grinder.aspx

[ericpmoss]

For my money at the cheap end, I'd get the Baratza Preciso and a 1/10th gram scale like the Hario. It's compact, retains almost no grind, and IMO its conical burr does as good or better of a job than anything under $1000. The ergonomics are so-so, but the grind is stellar, and it's home-repairable, with reasonably priced parts. If I had the $, I'd get the HG One hand grinder, which uses the burrs found on the Mazzer Robur.