Espresso machines

[boxerboxer]

Fine grind really doesn't work with the Aeropress, it will lead to over-extraction.

I disagree - obviously you can't steep as long if your grind is finer, but I've had great results with espresso-fine grinds as long as I'm quick.

[dashDustin]

Grabbed that $125 machine. Boiler is cracked. Rest of the internals are spotless. Kinda odd.

[dashDustin]

Attachment 74644

Attachment 74645

Grabbed that $125 machine. Boiler is cracked. Rest of the internals are spotless. Kinda odd.

[dashDustin]

Can we just turn this into the espresso discussion thread?

So I had 2 bags of beans. The first bag was some Leif Erikson / Saltzman Single Origin Microlot | Grimpeur Bros. Specialty Coffee . I used it to hone the ol' Aeropress as well as espresso machine. Got everything dialed to the point where I was happy. Grind setting, tamp pressure, water temp on Aeropress.

Now I'm using their 9 Dub Espresso | Grimpeur Bros. Specialty Coffee and for the life of me cannot pull a good shot. It's a (very) slow shot that is bitter, but has a good crema. To me and my limited experience, that says my grind is too fine.

Here's my question(s):

1) those of you whole do espresso regularly, do y'all get a small amount of grounds in your cup? really small...not measureable.

2) how great of an effect does tamp have on extraction?

3) what has a larger effect - tamp or grind?

4) or amount? I've been using 15.1gr, having experimented with up to 16.5.

5) does dose change with beans?

[oldguy00]

Can we just turn this into the espresso discussion thread?

So I had 2 bags of beans. The first bag was some Leif Erikson / Saltzman Single Origin Microlot | Grimpeur Bros. Specialty Coffee . I used it to hone the ol' Aeropress as well as espresso machine. Got everything dialed to the point where I was happy. Grind setting, tamp pressure, water temp on Aeropress.

Now I'm using their 9 Dub Espresso | Grimpeur Bros. Specialty Coffee and for the life of me cannot pull a good shot. It's a (very) slow shot that is bitter, but has a good crema. To me and my limited experience, that says my grind is too fine.

Here's my question(s):

1) those of you whole do espresso regularly, do y'all get a small amount of grounds in your cup? really small...not measureable.

2) how great of an effect does tamp have on extraction?

3) what has a larger effect - tamp or grind?

4) or amount? I've been using 15.1gr, having experimented with up to 16.5.

5) does dose change with beans?

No, you shouldn't be getting grinds in your cup when using the machine.. Aeropress, not sure.
Are the edges of your portafilter clean, no grinds resting on it when you attach it to the machine?

The tamp doesn't have a huge effect as long as you are consistent. I like to press it evenly/level, then just kind of lean on to it. That should get you in the 30 pound range. Again, doesn't have to be exact, just somewhat consistent.
BY FAR the grind has the bigger effect!! But the grind can definitely vary between different beans, and also with the same beans as they age. As beans get a few days older, you tend to have to grind them a bit finer.
I would try to keep your dose weight the same. Grind settings, again, will change with beans and age, but keep your dose around 16 grams for a double shot. You can go higher, or lower, but just be consistent.
The bitter and slow shot - try grinding slightly courser. You could also try flushing some water out for about 10 seconds before pulling the shot, will get rid of the over-heated water, might make for a better tasting shot.
Oh, and back to bean age....Once you get past the 7 - 10 day old mark, you are going to have trouble getting a good shot IMHO. If it takes you more than a week to get through a pound of beans, then start buying smaller amounts more often.

[oldguy00]

By the way, what did you end up using for a grinder?? And did you fix the cracked boiler on the machine you bought, or did you get something different?

[Cookietruck]

oldguy00 is right on.
grind has more effect
flush water before you pull the shot
grind will need adjustment as the beans age

i wouldn't expect a blend to easily come out bitter, it is possible that they use some acidic beans that give the shot a little bite
keep playing with it

[dashDustin]

Using a Porlex JP-30...a Baratza Preciso will hopefully come after Christmas.

Fixed the boiler in my Gaggia. Surprised how simple the machines are.

I'll back off the grind and give another shot after work. Gracias.

[Cookietruck]

don't rule out backing off the grind and also tamping firmer
i do that often because my grinder is stepped
since my machine is a lever machine i can actually feel how that effects everything, where as with a pump you can kinda just watch and guess..untill you taste it

need to step up to a mazzer grinder already

[justinf]

Glad this thread is still going strong. Last year I got my wife a Rancilio Rocky and it is perfect for us. Thinking that this year I'd like to add an espresso machine. . .she was a barista in college and loves to pull shots. We have Nespresso already, and are still using a Starbucks machine for shots (made by one of the Italian companies I think, don't remember).

Is the Silvia still the way to go? Worth the extra money over the Gaggia? Don't really want to go above the Silvia in cost so that may be the ticket. . . any feedback most appreciated, thanks. j

[oldguy00]

Glad this thread is still going strong. Last year I got my wife a Rancilio Rocky and it is perfect for us. Thinking that this year I'd like to add an espresso machine. . .she was a barista in college and loves to pull shots. We have Nespresso already, and are still using a Starbucks machine for shots (made by one of the Italian companies I think, don't remember).

Is the Silvia still the way to go? Worth the extra money over the Gaggia? Don't really want to go above the Silvia in cost so that may be the ticket. . . any feedback most appreciated, thanks. j

I think the Starbucks machine is a Saeco? Can't remember. Regardless, if it is still working OK, I don't think it is worth it to buy a Silvia. I used to have a Rocky and a Silvia. I found it very difficult to get a good shot from the Sylvia. Folks seem to have kept its reputation popular as a machine that requires you to experiment a lot with it, temp surf, etc. I had mine for a year and found it very frustrating. In fairness, I don't know if part of it was the rocky grinder, as it is not really considered a high end grinder or not. Also, I found the steaming on the Silvia to be very weak, and could not for the life of me get good microfoam.
A while ago I upgraded to a Vario grinder and a Rocket Giotto Premium V2 espresso machine. Wow, world of difference. Beautiful looking shots the very first evening while dialing it in. Super easy to get microfoam while steaming.
But of course it comes with a price tag. The Vario is about 400-450, and the Giotto was about 1800...

[false_aesthetic]

I'm on my 2nd Silvia:

1. I'd buy it used not new.
2. Install a PID.

I've found that you need to make your grind finer for the Silvia than other brands. I don't have the scratch for a nice grinder so I purchased a cheap $30 one, pulled it apart and shimmed it until it worked for what I need. If I have a shop grind for me I need to ask for "2 clicks past espresso".

[justinf]

Thanks for the feedback fellas. Well, I did go ahead and pull the trigger on a new Silvia prior to reading these responses. Our Saeco is probably 10 years old and the lady is ready for something new I think. It will go under the tree.

If it performs as well as the Rocky we will be loving it come 2015. We'll see.

[gt6267a]

Can we just turn this into the espresso discussion thread?

So I had 2 bags of beans. The first bag was some Leif Erikson / Saltzman Single Origin Microlot | Grimpeur Bros. Specialty Coffee . I used it to hone the ol' Aeropress as well as espresso machine. Got everything dialed to the point where I was happy. Grind setting, tamp pressure, water temp on Aeropress.

Now I'm using their 9 Dub Espresso | Grimpeur Bros. Specialty Coffee and for the life of me cannot pull a good shot. It's a (very) slow shot that is bitter, but has a good crema. To me and my limited experience, that says my grind is too fine.

Here's my question(s):

1) those of you whole do espresso regularly, do y'all get a small amount of grounds in your cup? really small...not measureable.

2) how great of an effect does tamp have on extraction?

3) what has a larger effect - tamp or grind?

4) or amount? I've been using 15.1gr, having experimented with up to 16.5.

5) does dose change with beans?

When starting to make espresso, I focused on grind size, grams, and tamp. There was a gram scale for beans and another for tamping pressure. If there was a way to quantify and make a process repeatable, it was under review. Let’s not talk about how many pounds of beans went into microscopic improvements of a mediocre product. The advice that got me over the hump came from “The Professional Barista Handbook by Scott Rao” and watching a barista turn out an amazing product without scales or scoops.

To break it down, you get the biggest win by grooming nicely. After grinding, there is a mound in the porta-filter. However you tamp, try wiggling the tamper around a bit. Is the coffee compressed evenly 360’ or does the tamper dip and dive around peaks and valleys? Water under pressure will take the easiest path through the grounds (kind of like electricity). So if your puck isn’t perfectly even, the majority of the water is going through the thin spots Vs passing evenly through all the grounds.

To fix this, once you have a nice mound in the porta-filter, gently sweep your finger across the top of the portal filter from “South” to “North” going about 80% of the way. Then, sweep your finger North to South all the way. If you have done this perfectly, the tamp will feel even with no thin spots. Some extend the grooming to East and West as well, but I seem to do fine with 2 passes. Its expected that not all the grounds in the mound will make it to brewing.

Now, if you are interested in measuring something … time how long it takes to make a shot. If you are < 20 seconds, tighten up the grind. If you are at 45+ seconds, loosen it up.

Notice something here, the amount of beans is relevant but not something you need weigh. If you get the mound reasonably close in size, the grooming will take care of the quantity.

[dashDustin]

Finally got everything dialed. Don't think I mentioned here, but I got a Baratza Precisio for Christmas that has helped quite a bit.

Here's my next question. The shots I'm pulling are good. I enjoy them. On my scale of 1 - 4, I put them at a 3. I want to know what I need to do to get to that 4.

There are 2 places that pull shots I think are 4+. Oddly, one was at Cross Nats in a trailor...behind the SRAM truck...can't remember what it was called. Anyway, there and the coffee shop in Plano both pull shots that have this nice, thick crema that lasts till the end. The trailor at Nats pulled the shot really quickly...I was surprised.

Is this type of crema simply a result of further tuning of temp, tamp, and grind?

[Cookietruck]

Is this type of crema simply a result of further tuning of temp, tamp, and grind?

all of the above
mostly tamp and grind though, tamp too hard or grind too fine and your gonna have a flatter crema.
i pull my shots fast usually because they taste best there...but my grinder is not precise enough to really dial it in with only grind. so sometimes i tamp extra hard, sometimes i tamp really light.

curious what that trailer was.

it wasn't Patika was it?

[Cookietruck]

oh some internet stalking leads me to believe it was Grimpeur Bros. coffee???

edit: and damn roasted coffee has gotten hella expensive.

[dashDustin]

nope, not Grimpeur. I've been trying to find a picture, but can't. Thought it was something like Trophy, but that's coming up with nothing.

[oldguy00]

all of the above
mostly tamp and grind though, tamp too hard or grind too fine and your gonna have a flatter crema.
i pull my shots fast usually because they taste best there...but my grinder is not precise enough to really dial it in with only grind. so sometimes i tamp extra hard, sometimes i tamp really light.

curious what that trailer was.

it wasn't Patika was it?

Respectfully disagree. The tamp really isn't a huge factor, as long as you are consistent. Grind, of course, is very important. But you should be able to get that set pretty accurate by measuring how much espresso you are using (grams), how much fluid you then end up with after a 25 second pull, etc.
I think the other huge factor in the crema is the age of the beans. If the beans are over 10 days old, you are going to see a decrease in crema and taste will start to go downhill too.
The good shots you are pulling, how long ago were the beans roasted?

[boxerboxer]

Respectfully disagree. The tamp really isn't a huge factor, as long as you are consistent. Grind, of course, is very important. But you should be able to get that set pretty accurate by measuring how much espresso you are using (grams), how much fluid you then end up with after a 25 second pull, etc. I think the other huge factor in the crema is the age of the beans. If the beans are over 10 days old, you are going to see a decrease in crema and taste will start to go downhill too. The good shots you are pulling, how long ago were the beans roasted?

I think tamp matters in that it's part of uniform grounds distribution (or rather, part of effing it up if you do it wrong).

To the OP: look up WDT (Weiss Distribution Technique).