Learn Me On Down Jackets

[drietz]

Hey all, wasn't sure to post this here or in the Art of Wardrobe, so I figured that since it's more of a utilitarian question I'd throw it up here. So here it goes...

It's official. I received my acceptance letter from Dartmouth (and a little more importantly, my notice of financial aid fulfillment) so I will theoretically be spending the next 4 years in New Hampshire.

I'm a California boy, so the whole "winter" thing isn't too familiar to me. Was thinking about picking up a down jacket to keep me nice and toasty.

Besides cycling, I also free climb, so I was thinking something along the lines of a sturdy, mid to light weight jacket that'll keep me warm without making me look like the Michelin man.

Additionally, I started leaning towards synthetic down because of warmth in the wet and because natural down jackets seem rather delicate?

Oh, and I'm hoping to avoid shelling out Patagucci-esque prices. Suggestions?

Cheers!

[robin3mj]

Nau.com

Find a coupon or buy on sale. I have a down jacket and two of their blazers that I never take off.
Toes the line between city/outdoors and the cut is nice for a cyclist.

Ps. Mime is real goose down and not delicate in the least.

[Plum]

Actual down jackets are too warm for me to wear while doing anything under a very leisurely activity. Even at zero, they're too warm to ride in or ski in. Maybe a very lightweight one, but then you're not really getting the benefits of a down jacket, the super warmth.

Get a soft shell fleece for activities and a down jacket for walking to class and standing around, at least IMHO.

Plum

[j44ke]

Down is rated by fill power. The number corresponds to the volume filled by a gram (usually) of feathers. The higher the loft of the feathers the greater the fill power and the higher the insulating ability by weight. So in short, you need less 700 fill power down to fill the same volume as 600 fill power down. That doesn't mean that higher fill power is warmer, just that you need less of it in a jacket to achieve the same insulating abilities as a lower fill power down.

Marmot has always had a very good reputation for the quality of their down. I don't think that has changed. I have a Marmot down jacket that has 700 fill power down in it and it works on the very coldest days in NYC. I have also had the jacket for about 8 years, so fragility has not been an issue.

In fact, I think that fragility is not something I actually attach to down jackets as a quality. For their weight, they are remarkably durable, and most downs being used today can actually be laundered in a washing machine and dried in the dryer using proper settings. The trick with drying is to throw in a couple brand new tennis balls or racket balls when you put the jacket in the dryer. The reputation may come more from what the jacket is made out of (the nylon or equivalent) than the down itself.

You also want to fit a down jacket so that there is as little dead space between you and the jacket. A jacket that is too big requires you to heat the dead space between you and the jacket and that will make it harder to stay warm.

Patagonia also makes some superlative down jackets in a variety of weights. Patagonia's philosophy has always been towards the use of layers, and adding a down layer to their soft shells or capilene fleece layers is great way to balance insulation if you are going to be active. Patagonia's lightweight down jackets ball up into something about the size a grapefruit and a half. That makes putting them on and taking them off while moving pretty easily done.

I avoid synthetics. I haven't found one that does the job that down does. Down is like wool. Lots of attempts on improvement but none of them have been replacements.

[PJN]

Go to college someplace it is warm. Winter sucks and it isn't worth it.

Problem solved.

[jonnycomelately]

Congrats on Dartmouth. That's quite an achievement.

Having spent time in New England during college, I can tell you you're going to need at least one full-on seriously warm coat for walking around in winter. I came to New England from the South for college, and was surprised at (1) how damn COLD it is in the winter; and (2) how much more formal things are there than what I had grown up with. Hanover is even colder than Boston, where I was. I ended up buying a heavy wool, full-length overcoat and getting more use out of it than any other coat I had. Expensive, but it is something you'll use for years after graduation, depending on where you go. Think of it as an investment. Best bet for something like this would probably be to get it when you go there in the fall (or get your parents to buy it for you as a dropping-their-baby-off-at-college gift). They probably have a better selection in New Hampshire than you do in California, and that way you won't have to pack the bulky thing in your cross-country luggage.

For athletic activities, something lighter is better, of course. The other entries in this thread have good feedback on down. I agree that real down is better than synthetics. You might also consider wool. I have had really good luck with Ibex wool stuff, and that's local to where's you'll be. Here's a link to their website: Ibex Outdoor Clothing: Merino Wool Clothing, Wool Cycling Apparel, Organic Cotton Clothing, Wool Underwear and Baselayers

Good luck!

[Derek Raymond]

I'm from NH and think layering is more important than just a warm coat.

For jackets: Ibex is a good recommend, Swrve makes nice jackets, people like mountain hardware a lot and of course l.l. Bean, filson, etc. There are many more good companies that others here will recommend. With anything you get, make sure it comes with a hood.

Consider flannel. Pendleton's from the thrift are great and purposeful. Beans and Eddie Bauer have great selections for warm button downs. If that's not your style, maybe sweaters.

Wool or polyester base layers / undershirts + wool socks are bliss. Wool stinks less, polyester is stronger. blends are cool.

Mittens are warmer than gloves, hats should cover your ears. I know that's more than just jackets, but that's where I'd start for it all.

[vertical_doug]

Attachment 50374

New England Approved.

[professerr]

Notsure where you are in Northern Cal, but if you can, go to the Patagonia outlet in Santa Cruz. Everything is much cheaper, sometimes crazy cheap. Get some of their winter stuff. Down, synthetic, fleece -- doesn't really matter if you're just using it for non-sports stuff. Personally, I don't like down for anything other than climbing or backpacking trips where the weight savings is worth the other drawbacks -- can't launder easily, sucks when wet, pricey. Wool is also excellent too -- I used my warm long heavy wool overcoat all the time.

And don't forget you'll need boots. Not cowboy boots like my California girlfriend bought for school in the Northeast. Warm boots. Insulated.

[Philster]

Don't know anything about down but would really like to congratulate you on your acceptance. When I went to school in up-state NY, we used beer to stay warm. It may not have actually kept me warm but at least it kept me from remembering what coat I was wearing.

[vertical_doug]

Congratulations on acceptance at Dartmouth. Honestly, I wouldn't do anything until you get out in Hanover. You have to ship everything from California to Dartmouth. There is a limited amount you can bring on the flight. It's a pain in the ass. I don't think you are planning on driving cross country are you?

Patagonia, Backcountry.com , REI , IBEX and other online vendors all have web specials going year round. Once you are settled, figure out what you need and get it then. It will be more timely, less wasteful.

[xjoex]

Congrats! You'll end up with two coats, one for climbng/etc and one for going to class/around town.

For walking around, get a puffy coat that looks good, I have a great down coat from Sierra Designs.

For climbing, riding, etc, buy a softshell to wear while on the rock, and throw the puffy coat on while belaying.

Also, buy a pair of boots for walking to class in the snow. Until my sophomore year I never owned real boots, but walking around a wet cold campus in canvas vans sucks.

Awesome work!


-Joe

[Michael Roy]

Have fun at Dartmouth. I was on Dartmouth cycling team in 70s. Fond memories. Great place for training. I hope you'll be riding for them. As for down jackets, I got nothing to offer. Sorry.

[drietz]

Thank you everybody, both for your suggestions and your congratulations.

All those hours begrudgingly spent studying instead of riding seemed to pay off.

[kangarew99]

I second Joe's advice about a belay jacket. I would get down, and make sure it's goose down. If the garment doesn't say goose down in the label it's probably duck. Duck down tends to smell funky after a while, especially if it gets wet and doesn't dry thoroughly. Some people don't notice it much, some are appalled by it. As said before, higher fill power means you need less weight of fill to achieve the same loft = insulation value. Better garments also have higher fill pressure in the space between the quilt lines, they feel more plump. Also, buy it now. The wholesale price of down, especially goose down, has been going way, way up this last year. What that likely means is next year you will pay much more for a similar quality item. I think a lot of retailers have big sales going on due to poor holiday performance, you so can probably find a great deal now.

Costco actually has a smokin' deal on a really nice lightweight down jacket right now, if you can shop there. $69 for something that would cost at least twice that from Patagonia, Marmot, REI, etc. I work in the outdoor industry, FWIW.

[Simonhi]

Worth considering Rab if you get them stateside.

Made in Sheffield UK, featured in the very first "Round the world in 80 days" with Michael Palin (Monty Python).

I've got three of them now, a thick one I've had for ten years, I used it when paragliding in the Himilayas and its good down to minus 15 Celsius with a base layer and fleece. The second one is an ultra lightweight, medium weight thickness hooded jacket which I use mostly for early morning walks in the winter, with a long sleeve t shit underneath its toasty down to zero degree Celsius. The third one is a gilet / micro down, it gets used everyday between October and April. I've had it about five years and I'm just aboutmtomsend it back t the manufacturer for a refill.

Also have a Rab sleeping bag which I have used to camp out on the top of a few mountains to get a sunrise photograph, st also toasty.

I've also got a Patagonia jacket which is quite thin and used under a shell jacket but its a bit too big for me now. I would probably go with Patagonia if I was US based.

[Matthew J]

Agree with many here who say you probably do not want to wear an insulated coat riding. Maybe a good vest over a sweater is the most I ever use in Chicago.

Ibex mentioned above is now selling a vest and jacket insulated with shredded wool. Wool is durable and does not get cold when wet.

Plus it is made in Canada, not by commies who are using the profits to run elephants, rhinos and tigers into extinction.

[JoB]

Easy solution. Once you are there, drive over to North Conway. Every outdoors outlet that ever existed is there. Try some on and ask the Dartmouth and other ivy grads serving you their opinion ,-)

(Seriously, congrats on getting in.)

Agree with many here who say you probably do not want to wear an insulated coat riding. Maybe a good vest over a sweater is the most I ever use in Chicago.

Ibex mentioned above is now selling a vest and jacket insulated with shredded wool. Wool is durable and does not get cold when wet.

Plus it is made in Canada, not by commies who are using the profits to run elephants, rhinos and tigers into extinction.

[Lickety Split]

george-costanza-gortex-jacket[1].jpg
This ones nice

[AJPM44]

Easy solution. Once you are there, drive over to North Conway. Every outdoors outlet that ever existed is there. Try some on and ask the Dartmouth and other ivy grads serving you their opinion ,-)

(Seriously, congrats on getting in.)

Great idea. If you are in North Conway, go to IME, in their basement they have used gear. You can get anything you want there from the rich guys that tried ice climbing once, got cold, then scared, then accidentally kicked themselves with their crampons, then promptly gave it up and sold off their 2,000 investment. Also, it isn't even cold around here anymore.