Traveling to Europe with two very little kids?

[mjbabcock]

Okay, the wife and I are in serious need of a vacation to a location where we can take a break from life. We're both pursuing terminal degrees and have two wonderful daughters (who are 2 yrs and 3 months respectively). I've got to put something together for this summer that gives us (me) something to look forward to.

Any suggestions for international travel (thinking Europe here) that would provide interesting opportunities for parents with little children while not breaking the bank? Opportunities to ride are a bonus but not necessary. I'm also open to suggestions for travel up to Whistler for a week or a trip out to the San Juans for a camping trip. We're in a veritable Shangri-la but I need something to look forward to...suggestions?

[vertical_doug]

I'd look for a closer destination that doesn't involve as many time zones. Jet Lag for the children can be a real headache to work around. Your first week there will be spent up all night and sleeping all day. When you return home, you will also deal with it. For that reason, I'd skip Europe until the children are older.

When my daughters were younger, going to the beach was a blast. Have you considered Kauai? The jet lag goes in the right direction meaning the children will sleep later in the morning too.

[liv2bike]

Travel to Europe with little ones is not that bad. We have done it. If you must travel to Europe then I suggest Tivoli Gardens and Amusement park in Copenhagen. An amazing place.

Tivoli

International travel with tots just requires lots of prep. Biggest hassle for us was all the baby gear...car seats b/c we rented a car, stroller etc. I would suggest picking a destination, renting a flat/apartment vs bouncing around all over the place.

[robin3mj]

No kids of my own but having traveled to France with some friends and their 1 year old I can tell you that the portion we spent in the countryside was vastly more enjoyable than the 2 days spent in Paris. Negotiating the Metro with little ones, strollers, etc was a major hassle.

[echelon_john]

We've never had an issue traveling in Europe with our daughter. Granted, we only have one child, but it was never an issue. In Italy, where our home base is, children are very welcome in restaurants; we often had de facto babysitting as the wait staff would whisk our daughter away, play with her, etc. while we ate. I have pictures of her at maybe 1.5 yrs old sitting on a table in a kitchen eating beans fed to her by a chef.

Kids are remarkably resilient as far as jet lag. Sure, there will be an adjustment, but some planning to keep them fed and watered and give them chances to nap will go a long way. I would say go for it; if you love travel and plan for that to be part of your life, then the earlier the better for your kids to get into it.

Good luck!

[holliscx]

Just throwing this out but I bet you could find a casa rural (rural house) rental very cheap in Spain. Possibly look for something in the Basque country that would afford good riding at your doorstep and perhaps coincide with a detour to see the Tour pass through the Pyrenees in early July. If you had a car you may be able to pop into cities like San Sebastian and Santander for a night although with the little ones this will be difficult to do right without a babysitter. Good luck I have two little ones under three myself.

[liv2bike]

One more thing...kids need passports too. I am sure you knoe but just thought I would throw it out there anyway. I will say it again, do not hesitate to travel to Europe with kids. You all will make some wonderful memories. One of the other things we loved...all the parks. The playground equipment is really different than the stuff our parks have...at least the parks we found over there. Also letting the kids run in the piazza's makes for good times.

[roseyscot]

i have a 2.5 and a newborn and i have to agree with those warning about jet lag, especially since you get three extra hours (9 total?) of time change from WA to get to europe. i'd vote for hawaii. no passports, fewer connections, and shorter flights. do europe when they are out of strollers and diapers and more capable of "seeing" things. it's a lot of money to spend on a vacation they won't really remember right now.

or, find a loving parent/relative to watch them for a week and go by yourselves to europe. my wife and i went to scotland when our son was 1+ and although hard to be away from him for 8 days, we did get to have an adult vacation.

[ElvisMerckx]

I've done this a bunch of times with my little ones. It's doable, but if you expect and prepare for the worst, it's managable.

Have plenty of liquids ready on the plane for when the air pressure changes and the kids start to scream. Gulping water fixes this, but a lot of parents don't get it and the rest of the plane will give you dirty looks because of your screaming kid.

Normally, you'd be able to plan your days around the kids' nap schedules, but sleeping patterns will be all jacked up due to jet lag. So forget planning a daily itinerary. We spent two nights of one vacation running around a parking garage with a toddler from midnight until 6 am. After nights like those, our days were ineffective and a waste of time-off.

In general, Europe is not as kid-friendly as the United States -- especially the cities. So don't expect people to make room on an elevator to accomodate your stroller, or offer kids' menus at restaurants. And most hotels aren't set up to accomodate families (the exception being Austria -- we love Austria).

And your kids, at those ages, will never remember their trip to Europe. So you'll need to take them again someday when they're older and can appreciate it.

[echelon_john]

Kids menus are largely an American phenomenon. So are picky kids who will only eat chicken fingers. In most other places, kids are adults-in-training, not exalted rulers of their parents' lives, schedules, and dining choices.

It's easy to pick out American kids in Europe; they're the overweight ones yelling at their parents about what they want and then crying if they don't get it.

[maunahaole]

What are you looking to do on your trip? Do the kids need a lot of outside stimulation to stay engaged or will they be OK with the relative calm of camping? If yo do Kauai - think about Kokee State Park. Top of Waimea canyon 4000' elevation. Not the beach, cooler than sea level. Cool spot. At least for a couple of days. Accommodations range from primitive campsite to hotel room. Reserve in advance, some of the stuff fills up quickly.

Accommodations | K

[ElvisMerckx]

Kids menus are largely an American phenomenon. So are picky kids who will only eat chicken fingers. In most other places, kids are adults-in-training, not exalted rulers of their parents' lives, schedules, and dining choices.

It's easy to pick out American kids in Europe; they're the overweight ones yelling at their parents about what they want and then crying if they don't get it.

Dude, WTF? Just because I don't want to order an adult sized schnitzel plate at adult prices for my 22 month old, should not force your illogical leap to chicken fingers, obesity, and unruliness. Jeez...

[sladejw]

Travel to Europe with little ones is not that bad. We have done it. If you must travel to Europe then I suggest Tivoli Gardens and Amusement park in Copenhagen. An amazing place.

Tivoli

International travel with tots just requires lots of prep. Biggest hassle for us was all the baby gear...car seats b/c we rented a car, stroller etc. I would suggest picking a destination, renting a flat/apartment vs bouncing around all over the place.

Agree that international travel with kids is not bad. My parents took me & my sister abroad regularly, starting when I was 3 months. We lived abroad twice, traveled to Europe at least every other year. Totally the reason why I have the travel bug.

That said, I disagree with the notion that you have to ensconce yourselves somewhere. We move every 3-4 days. The actual traveling from town to town is part of the adventure. Skip renting the car & just bring a stroller. Europeans love seeing Americans with kids--it's just not done in their experience, but the Euros take their kids everywhere.

And I'll second Tivoli as a fun destination. But think Greece; it's cheap (especially now), very possible to get around the islands on public ferries, beaches, ruins & museums, and great food.

[j44ke]

Most people speak the international language of baby, so you'll meet a lot of people you might not otherwise in places that have a welcoming attitude towards children. Our experience traveling with friends who have kids is that places like Spain, Italy, and Croatia all seem to like kids. What has worked well when we've traveled with our friends is to stay in one place for the duration and then drive out on day excursions to explore. Or just hang out at the house. Everyone likes naps.

Istria is really beautiful. South of Trieste and across from Venice, but linked historically with a really great flavor and pace of life. Rovinj and Pula are both ancient places with plenty of accommodations for tourists, including little houses near the coast here and there.

Some of the towns along the coast south of Barcelona are supposed to be very nice. A friend has a tiny place in Sitges that she likes so much we may never get to "borrow" it. Nice beaches, a market, arts, nice climate.

And in Italy, some place like this might be nice. Kids can run around, there's a pool, you are near Lucca and excellent food, a big market, and about 45 minutes or so from the coastal beaches. Pisa is an hour. Florence is an hour and a half. Or you can just sit in the hammock.

[Mabouya]

or, find a loving parent/relative to watch them for a week and go by yourselves to europe. my wife and i went to scotland when our son was 1+ and although hard to be away from him for 8 days, we did get to have an adult vacation.

I have no first-hand experience with kids or Europe, but was also going to suggest this. Or, as an alternative, how about taking Grandma and/or Grandpa along, to um, "share the fun." (euphemism for having on-call baby sitters that give you and your wife more time to do the non-kid stuff, while the kids and the old folks relax at the hotel / home base)

[echelon_john]

Or there's always this http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum...ase-19634.html!

[fa63]

I know you said Europe, but I will put in another vote for Hawaii here, especially if you are limited with time. We just came back from Maui, and it was everything I could ask for from a vacation and the price wasn't too bad either (check out the Makena Beach Resort for a great place to stay at reasonable prices). Riding is great as well; you have got Haleakala right there and the riding in West Maui and the upcountry areas are great as well.

[maunahaole]

Makena is a nice spot. Plenty sharks.

[Vlad Luskin]

Dude, go to Hawaii and sit on the beach, sipping mai tais, while you watch your kids play in the sand and don't subject pre-schoolers -- and yourself -- to 9+-hour flights and jet lag. Do it now and save Europe until they're old enough to appreciate it.

[fa63]

...sit on the beach, sipping mai tais...

Mai Tais are delicious, indeed.