Get Your Grump on Thursdays - Was (What's chapping my @ss today?)

[caleb]

It's looking like the higher tier of law schools doesn't want me, which leaves me wondering about going at all-- I don't want to be some unemployed sap with a law degree from a middling school in three and a half years, even if I didn't pay for it.

You always pay for it, it's just a question of how much. My wife went through law school on a full tuition scholarship, but that doesn't mean it was free: three years of lost wages, retirement contributions, living expenses, etcetera. It's better to not pay tuition than to pay it, but there are a lot of cost you pay either way. Can you tell I can still smell the fumes of doing our taxes?

[lumpy]

a law degree would serve as resume shorthand for a linguistic/detail oriented skill set that would move me into a different tier of career options.

Red flag. A law degree can make you less employable in a non-law job because the employer assumes you want to be practicing. Pretty well documented phenomenon in these difficult times for non-elite law school graduates. Don't go unless you have a strong concept of what being a lawyer is about and you know that's what you want - and preferably, what kind of law, and where you want to do it. Three years of law school is a massive opportunity cost. The practice of law is changing in profound structural ways. And it's a lonely, isolating, stressful, depression-inducing profession. Making a living is in no way guaranteed. Go get a job as a paralegal at a good-sized firm if you must. Feel free to PM me.

[Tom]

I know a guy who is a Professional Engineer who went to law school after he had involvement in a disability suit arising from something that happened on a site he was managing. A worker was hit over the head by a piece of styrofoam that fell off the top of the building and suffered disability. Sounds crazy, but when you realize it was one of those big sheets of rigid insulation that fell like ten stories and was sailing at about 60mph when it whacked the guy it makes more sense. But anyway, he found the whole process so fascinating that he went to law school nights and now he researches patents for people like GE and IBM. Last I talked to him he said it was still fascinating.

[Matthew Strongin]

Red flag. A law degree can make you less employable in a non-law job because the employer assumes you want to be practicing. Pretty well documented phenomenon in these difficult times for non-elite law school graduates. Don't go unless you have a strong concept of what being a lawyer is about and you know that's what you want - and preferably, what kind of law, and where you want to do it. Three years of law school is a massive opportunity cost. The practice of law is changing in profound structural ways. And it's a lonely, isolating, stressful, depression-inducing profession. Making a living is in no way guaranteed. Go get a job as a paralegal at a good-sized firm if you must. Feel free to PM me.

Same could be said for other advanced degrees. You should know what you want to do with it before going down that path. I know more than a few MBAs that are still trying to figure out what they want to do when they grow up and one who wonders why she isn't as far in her career as others her age. The career isn't related to her MBA and while she was at school her peers were racking up experience that has propelled them farther. I'm not in any way advocating you not go down the law school path, but if you don't plan on using the law degree as intended, there may be other, better options. FWIW, when I'm hiring I look at experience over degrees, including the specific school.

[Britishbane]

Same could be said for other advanced degrees. You should know what you want to do with it before going down that path. I know more than a few MBAs that are still trying to figure out what they want to do when they grow up and one who wonders why she isn't as far in her career as others her age. The career isn't related to her MBA and while she was at school her peers were racking up experience that has propelled them farther. I'm not in any way advocating you not go down the law school path, but if you don't plan on using the law degree as intended, there may be other, better options. FWIW, when I'm hiring I look at experience over degrees, including the specific school.

From a reference point quite similar to doomridesout, but perhaps a year or two more advanced, the advice of Matt and Lumpy is spot on. Looking at this discussion, I'm hit over the head with dread and a bit of regret. It's not a fun place to be. Finding my path has not been easy. I have a graduate degree, thought I was interested in the field and sort of assumed work would follow as a matter of course. I'm just about five years behind my peers and about to lag further behind (going back to school). Smart, hard working, but lacking a mission is not a good recipe for entering graduate school. If its a passion for law that is drawling you to the field, or hell, even if it was sure-fire employment at the end of three years, I'd say go for it. Like other's have said, you've got to be pretty sure you want to practice law or have a specific use for the degree IMO.

This fall I'm about to take a re-do on my professional life. It's been a miserable 2 years building up the necessary credits and a lost three before that looking for a 'good' job. Best of luck.

My grump: Enough of the sub-freezing temperatures. I want to ride my bike.

[joosttx]

Same could be said for other advanced degrees.

All your woes will be solved if you get a Ph.D. in entomology.

[Matthew Strongin]

All your woes will be solved if you get a Ph.D. in entomology.

Well that's at least 1 letter better than a Ph.D. in etymology.

There's a whole lot of non-Thursday grumping and non-grump responding going on. I don't know about you guys, but I'm following the honor code and doing pushups as I type.

[bcm119]

Joosttx has a PhD in kicking ass and taking pictures.

Ok I'm going for a ride instead of pushups. Hope your lungs get fixed soon Matt S.

[joosttx]

Joosttx has a PhD in kicking ass and taking pictures.

Hey I'm gonna show you how I'm kicking ass through pictures...

Bam!!!


2am Club before 5pm

[zetroc]

Hey I'm gonna show you how I'm kicking ass through pictures...

Sports!

[xjoex]

Counter point - It's never bad to work on an advanced degree. As long as you have experience and love the subject matter go for it. For me it opened a lot of doors, but I also worked full time while I got my masters and I am working full time now while I am working on my phd.

Seriously if you pair experience and education you are an ideal candidate.

Cheers,
-Joe

[joosttx]

Joe is getting a Ph.D. in awesomeness.

[spopepro]

Seriously if you pair experience and education you are an ideal candidate.

This is true, but what many of in Doom's demographic are finding is that the experience opportunities available are in retail and service industries. I can only speak with authority about my brother, with multiple degrees in sciences, finishing his MS in 2007 and having nothing in his field available as those with significant experience were getting laid off and gobbling up all of what would have been the entry level positions. It was especially harsh in the public sector as private firms downsized or closed. He still hasn't worked a day in a job that has required any of his education. I don't think he would have been better off without school... but things are scary and kind of aimless for many folk in their 20s.

[caleb]

Joe is getting a Ph.D. in awesomeness.

No kidding. Wish I had figured out how to do my PhD while living in the mountains. Guy is doing it right. Follow his example.

I went the full time route (only route available in my field), and I don't think I had as much fun as Joe is having now.

[j44ke]

I don't want to tell anyone what I paid for snowplowing four week old accumulated snow PLUS the huge pile my neighbor let the snowplow guy who plowed the main drive pile up across my section of the drive 4 weeks ago, effectively blocking my car in with a five foot tall iceberg. The plow guy nearly had to use dynamite on it. That plus the hard packed ice shelf over the rest of it took four hours.

But he asked if we were selling our Golf TDI, and we are at the end of May when we plan to get a new one. So there's that.

[nahtnoj]

So Jorn, you're saying Doom should move to Long Island and open a landscaping/snow removal business?

[lumpy]

So Jorn, you're saying Doom should move to Long Island and open a landscaping/snow removal business?

The big problem with the snowplowing business is you miss all the good skiing. Don't do it.

[doomridesout]

Lots of good feedback here, as I would've expected. For me, there's no particular fire or love of the law driving application to law school-- it's just a good dovetail with my natural skills.

Those who've commented on the dismal prospects for 'real' jobs for people in their twenties hit the nail on the head. Many people in my generation are entitled twits with no work ethic. It's an uphill battle proving to prospective employers that you're not like that if you are in your twenties.

[Tom]

OK - on topic. Vendor Tech Support. Why does it need to be a dialogue of them telling me that I might encounter a new problem I already solved after we solve the problem I report and me telling them no, I know how your product works and didn't have that problem when I got the workaround to the problem I'm reporting. Then I have to tell them that no, the syntax I'm using is correct or your product would tell me so. Then I have to tell them that no, I'm not going to make my users go to the DOS prompt, cd to the product directory start the program in line mode and then type in the file name they have to remember from wherever it is on their machine instead of using the GUI and guess what the problem exists there too. Why do I have to ask them to read the goddamn detailed debug log from the server task I attached to the case and look at the trace message their product emits and figure out where the one reporting the error that precisely matches the error presented by the GUI comes from and what condition raises it? And why is it every time like this? Why do I give them all the information they need at the beginning when they aren't going to look at it anyway and we have to perform this freaking ritual every freaking time?

[Sbti]

Asshat weather reader hype-ers in Atlanta whining that it's 17 degrees. -17 here with 25 mph gusts.