Is there a hiking equivalent to being a Fred?

[chasea]

Dead Freds don't hang bear bags.

[AJPM44]

Pretty sure hiking is the equivalent of being a Fred

[vertical_doug]

The hiking equivalent of a Fred is carrying too much gear for task at hand. Generally I equate hikers in heavy leather boots on easy trails with large packs as Freds. Light is right. We all carry too much sh!t

[OnTheEllipse]

Pretty sure hiking is the equivalent of being a Fred

hahaha

Thanks for all the insight and suggested reading.

[vertical_doug]

totally understand that, but...there are a lot of guys on the road that I wish would read something like VSalon, not draft me/cross wheel me or pass me when i'm slowing down because of a hazard in the road.

I don't want to be that guy on the trail.

Hikers are neither as tribal nor as competitive as cyclists. You are over thinking this. You will run into several kinds out there.

1. Solo AT thru hikers. These people may want to walk and talk to you on the trail because they have been talking to themselves for 3 days, but depending on when they last stocked up, they will mooch food off you.
2. Senior citizens - this seems a popular pass time.
3. Trail runners or ultralight - they pass by so fast nothing to worry about
4. Some nice people who are just enjoying a hike in the woods.

That about covers it. REI has a sale starting Friday. Go for it. Gear made by today's top manufacturers is usually all rock solid. I'd get a 2 person 3 season tent (marmot, TNF, Sierra Design, Mountain Hardwear, etc, stuff is all good). You only carry about an extra pound and half but my tent is my castle and it is nice to stretch out. I use a snowpeak manual stove. I use a little MSR 2 pot set for cooking. I use Montbell synthetic sleeping bags. Down is nicer but if it happens to get wet , you're screwed. Have fun

[Too Tall]

Doug, I've been a casual AT day hiker since I was only 10 feet tall ;) We grew up hiking and, of course, we all wore REAL manly hiking boots. I've tried trail shoes, the lighter variants of hiking shoes and they leave me bruised. At some point body weight and terrain is an issue and I keep going back to my old school Merrell Wilderness boots. They are the business for running rock to rock and are a burden on clean trails. This is sort of like deciding what tyres to run at D2R2 non? Depends on your application, light shoes are not always going to love you back and heavy leather boots kinda suck when terrain is gentle. I've worn out several sets of light hiking boots. They are pretty wonderful because they are so light but I have to toss them out after one season of hard use...feh.

[vertical_doug]

Doug, I've been a casual AT day hiker since I was only 10 feet tall ;) We grew up hiking and, of course, we all wore REAL manly hiking boots. I've tried trail shoes, the lighter variants of hiking shoes and they leave me bruised. At some point body weight and terrain is an issue and I keep going back to my old school Merrell Wilderness boots. They are the business for running rock to rock and are a burden on clean trails. This is sort of like deciding what tyres to run at D2R2 non? Depends on your application, light shoes are not always going to love you back and heavy leather boots kinda suck when terrain is gentle. I've worn out several sets of light hiking boots. They are pretty wonderful because they are so light but I have to toss them out after one season of hard use...feh.

Too Tall, uncle.... take me out of the headlock
One size does not fit all. If I was on a trail with a lot of scree, I'd want something closer to your boots. But for the most part, I prefer going lighter along these lines:

Vasque - Shoes

The rubber toe cap gives me enough protection and if the rock is clean, I can move fast. (at least fast for a middle age tubby) If loads get heavier you eventually need more support.

I will say this on a lighter note, in Arizona, the trails are pretty clean and fast, but the mesh upper on my trail shoes don't protect against cactus needles which really sucks.

[OnTheEllipse]

That about covers it. REI has a sale starting Friday. Go for it. Gear made by today's top manufacturers is usually all rock solid. I'd get a 2 person 3 season tent (marmot, TNF, Sierra Design, Mountain Hardwear, etc, stuff is all good). You only carry about an extra pound and half but my tent is my castle and it is nice to stretch out. I use a snowpeak manual stove. I use a little MSR 2 pot set for cooking. I use Montbell synthetic sleeping bags. Down is nicer but if it happens to get wet , you're screwed. Have fun

Reading the site TooTall linked, I can't see a downside to going lighter than not...other than cost, I guess. I see there are some pretty normal looking tents that weight 2 or so pounds? I don't want to know how much my at least 10 year old North Face tent weighs, but it's nowhere close to 2 pounds.

Liking this tent: Tarptent Ultralight Shelters

The closest REI is not particularly close. Might have to Zappos the shoes for convenience.

[Too Tall]

Reading the site TooTall linked, I can't see a downside to going lighter than not...other than cost, I guess. I see there are some pretty normal looking tents that weight 2 or so pounds? I don't want to know how much my at least 10 year old North Face tent weighs, but it's nowhere close to 2 pounds.

Liking this tent: Tarptent Ultralight Shelters

The closest REI is not particularly close. Might have to Zappos the shoes for convenience.

Email Alan, he is very good answering questions. If you need something from REI and I can help let me know. The Rockville store is only 3 miles away.
Doug, I've got a very close cousin to those Vasques. Great suggestion.

[OnTheEllipse]

thanks Josh

just ordered a pair of Salomons from zappos. I need them for day hikes anyways. I'll definitely hit up Alan when it's time to buy the pack/tent/bag

[xjoex]

I would not buy full leather boots without a toe cap. You will nick them and wear through the toes on rocks and what not, then water, mud and wet snow will seep through. This is just my opinion.

Picture of full leather vasques:


Boots with toe caps:


I use a small two person tent. This is my setup for a two night trip.

-Joe

[professerr]

thanks Josh

just ordered a pair of Salomons from zappos. I need them for day hikes anyways. I'll definitely hit up Alan when it's time to buy the pack/tent/bag

It is really important for me that my boots fit right. Not only is the size critical, but each manufacturer use different lasts which fit me very differently. You can't really know this unless you try them on one after another -- one mfg will often stand out as "ah -- that's perfect." I've done the mail order thing too with boots but found that the only way to really get the right boot is to go to a store with several models and manufacturers and try them all. Try what you've bought and if nothing else you'll learn (perhaps the hard way) what makes a good fitting boot for you. For me, the difference between, say, Scarpa and Merrill is night and day.

BTW, I love REI for things like boots (and in general). Their return policy is excellent. I bought a pair of mountaineering boots, used them on a 10-day trip, and returned them because the fit was off. No questions asked, other than the route I took!

[mjbabcock]

Go find a book by Ray Jardine. The light is right philosophy is the way to go and is akin to a 15 pound race bike versus a loaded touring bike. Running shoes, a single outfit with smart layering options, a mosquito headnet, and a cammelback and you're covering 25-30 miles in a day instead if 8-12. With less time between food stops you carry less food and travel faster.

I've done 1500+ mile trips and will never go back to the heavyweight style again. Having also done some mountaineering you begin to recognize how being weighed down is actually a liability when things get sketchy and you want out quick.

[fletcher]

Buy a pair of Northface Hedgehog GTX running shoes. I am now on my 3rd pair. Nice tread, waterproof and a good toe box.

robonza: Search results for hedgehog

-Joe

Same here with the NorthFace shoes... I'm on my third or fourth pair (not because they fall apart, just because I love them).

[professerr]

Go find a book by Ray Jardine. The light is right philosophy is the way to go and is akin to a 15 pound race bike versus a loaded touring bike. Running shoes, a single outfit with smart layering options, a mosquito headnet, and a cammelback and you're covering 25-30 miles in a day instead if 8-12. With less time between food stops you carry less food and travel faster.

I've done 1500+ mile trips and will never go back to the heavyweight style again. Having also done some mountaineering you begin to recognize how being weighed down is actually a liability when things get sketchy and you want out quick.

Lightweigh hiking is a great way to go I think, especially if you aren't carrying any climbing gear. Since Ray Jardine's book came out (quite some time ago) the lightweight approach has become much more mainstream and there are tons of very well engineered commercial alterntatives to the sometimes kludgy stuff I recall he advocated. Hiking in running shoes requires a certain amount of foot fitness, especially if you're a cyclist since your cardio fitness will enable you to put quite a few miles on your relatively tender feet. Then again, I've seen some guys go on for days with 60-pounds packs stuffed with climbing gear crossing boulder fields in crocs.

[miwuksurfer]

Tarptent
La Sportiva trailrunners
Snowpeak titanium stove and pots
Steripen
ULA or Cilogear backpack
Platypus bladder
Merino wool baselayers and socks
Fatty, salty food
Therma rest neo-air

[classtimesailer]

Shoes are over-rated. Get a pack and a small tent and hike in someplace. Spend two nights there and hike back out. Make notes while you are there. Make adjustments for the next trip. One pot for oatmeal, coffee, rice, and poached trout. Don't hike anywhere where there are no trout. Take one freeze-dried meal with you just in case you get skunked. It should last you about 6 or 7 trips. Raise your saddle and lower your bars as you increase flexibility.
Jeff

[j44ke]

You might check out the Potomac Appalachian Trail Club. Aside from trail maintenance, conservation and hikes, they also manage some of the cabins along the AT. You are in Annapolis, so while east of where they are located, I think they are the nearest chapter of Appalachian Trail clubs. http://www.patc.net

I used to manage the Fairfax Circle Hudson Trail Outfitter store way back when. If that company is still the same, they are good sources of local knowledge and equipment. They had an Annapolis store back then too. Actually, they had 13 different branches in the DC area. If they are still open, check them out. It is nice to develop a face-to-face relationship with someone in a good shop.

If you get a pack beyond just a day pack, definitely go get fitted before buying. They'll measure your back and shoulders and help fit you to a brand and model that will work. It isn't high science, but it is helpful for getting a knowledgable fit from someone so the pack sits correctly and doesn't ram your spine down into your socks. Part of the fit is loading it with bean bags and letting you wear it around the shop for a while. I kind of still like external frame packs because you can clip, tie, bolt things all over them. Internals always seem to have the thing you want at the bottom of the pack.

You can do most local overnight (1-3 night) hiking with fairly light shoes. But multi-day hiking (meaning 4-5) requires a bit more support, not because of the terrain but because of the amount of stuff you will be carrying. The amount of energy you expend maintaining balance and footing in light shoes while wearing a weighty pack on your back translates into miles off your day on the trail. And as you get tired, you are more likely to slip and twist something. Most companies make solid lightweight boots that provide proper support for this sort of thing. Most of the makers are pretty durable. You just need to find one that fits your foot.

I always got down sleeping bags (Marmot was my favorite,) but I think synthetics have improved a lot. They used to be heavier than down by quite a bit, but some synthetic fills are warm even when wet. Down just turns into a wet duck, and that's not fun, especially when it is cold. You can usually check out bags in person at good shops, get in them, roll around, etc. Good bags often come in different lengths and widths, the reason being you have to heat the space in a bag, so if the bag is too big, you are burning up a lot of energy to heat the bag and not yourself. On that note, a pad will make a difference, not due to comfort, but due to warmth. Sleeping on the ground is like sleeping on sheet metal. It is a really good conductor of warmth away from your body. A pad helps with insulation.

If you hike in the east coast mountains, rain and snow are your enemy. Good waterproof/breathable gear is a wise investment. If you want a tent, get a tent. But get a good one. Bad ones are worse than sleeping outside. I like the Sierra Designs Clip Flashlight and MeteorLight tents. The former is light & sized for two people snugly. It isn't self-supporting. The latter is not as light as the Flashlight, but it fits two people comfortably and is self-supporting. Both tents are very well ventilated 3-season tents that can be stretched into 4 seasons (light snow loads.) The designs have been made by Sierra Designs for over 20 years, so they are tried true and fully tested. Once you get one, practice setting it up. See how fast you can do it. Memorize it. You'll be happy you did when you get to a campsite and it starts raining.

The key is not to spend too much money. The more you spend, the more you have to cart into the woods with you. And speaking of which, even if you are going on a relatively short trip, follow simple safety rules. Always file a travel plan with someone at home. Always carry a basic first aid kit. Don't hike beyond your knowledge and ability. Remember that going back the way you came is preferable to any short cut or even sometimes continuing on in the direction you started (especially if storms are coming.)

Also ziplock and trash bags are your friends. Matches are nice to have when the lighter stops working. Good camp stoves rarely burn down forests like leftover campfires do. Headlamps are genius things so you have hands free for cooking, taking a whiz, or reading a map. And wool is one of the most amazing things ever invented by sheep.

Edit: I haven't hiked seriously in years now, so check to make sure that things haven't changed. I think sheep are still making wool but other things might be different.

[j44ke]

Doug, I've been a casual AT day hiker since I was only 10 feet tall ;) We grew up hiking and, of course, we all wore REAL manly hiking boots. I've tried trail shoes, the lighter variants of hiking shoes and they leave me bruised. At some point body weight and terrain is an issue and I keep going back to my old school Merrell Wilderness boots. They are the business for running rock to rock and are a burden on clean trails. This is sort of like deciding what tyres to run at D2R2 non? Depends on your application, light shoes are not always going to love you back and heavy leather boots kinda suck when terrain is gentle. I've worn out several sets of light hiking boots. They are pretty wonderful because they are so light but I have to toss them out after one season of hard use...feh.

I would have thought you were a Limmer boot guy! I guess Wilderness boots are close though.