bringheli jig comments/reviews

[prolix21]

I'm considering getting a jig and don't want to spend a fortune and the DIY setups I've seen seem a bit hit and miss. I've seen a few people here mention the bringheli, which compared to most other jigs is quite affordable. I built my first frame on an artos, so I'm somewhat spoiled, but I also don't have 5k to drop into a jig for hobby building.

How's the bringheli as far as setup and accuracy? From the photos, it looks like a tank, but was wondering what you guys thought of them for someone just starting out.

Thanks!

[WadePatton]

I built my first one on Bringheli, and later bought one of my own. I'm just now getting to use mine own.

They work fine, it's not the tool it's the Tool you know. But i'll tell a thing or two 'bout my experience.

First thing-no calibrations beyond drop. I use a digital level (way better than handyman angle finder) to set HT/ST angles. Most folks add a magnetic rule to facilitate finding X, Y coordinates. I've not done that yet-i fumble with a framing square/speed square to find those and I double triple and quintuple check it all. Repeatable measurements yo, none else count.

I tapped some flat stock so that the "nut" would be captured in the channel-so that the quickie handles (those are the orange things on Don's stuff-what is the proper term?) would be functional. Joe's has a simple hex-nut, uncaptured, so that you have to use a wrench if you don't do a mod.

Also note that the set screws will be mixed sae/metric. So i keep a couple of dedicated wrenches at the fixture. I expect i'll drill/tap and resolve that issue _or_ just make a bunch of thumbscrews.

They work, but do eat a lot of time with setup/checking-with the digi level my first move is to make sure the fixture is plumb-every time i check angles. And it's a bit of a chore getting in/out with the headtube arrangement.

And they're really easy to resell if you ever want to buy a more calibrated fixture. My pal in TX is still using the same one I used in 2009, and he's doing a lot more frame-building now.

I wonder how far folks have gone in adding on calibrations and features to these entry-level fixtures. hell, let's see 'em. and I like Joe. I try not to buy chit from folks I can't get along with. I'm funny like that.

methinks i'll get something nicer later, but their are soo many choices, Hank, Don, Jeff, Doug, etc. IIRC Doug Fattic has the biggest variety in his shop, plus the one he designed. So if you take a Fattic class you get to see many jigs in action.

--
what the hey? you're IN Ohio you must BY buckeye LAW get a least one JB frame jig...maybe more.

[Jonathan]

I used one for 5 years. It's not a great production fixture. The money you save on the front end will be eaten up in setup time so if you're a hobbyist it will be a-ok. I only used mine to tack the front triangle and sort of "suggest" where the dropouts should go. I think you'll find the accuracy requires you to really focus on the process out of the fixture after tacking and that is probably a good thing for someone building frame 2. You really have to work and understand what is happeneing with the bringheli. If you're wanting to move towards joining methods or materials that require more accuracy you may want to start higher up the food chain.

[prolix21]

Yeah, with JB in Ohio I figured I could just drive up and pick one up, shop local and whatnot. Save some shipping costs and get a road trip out of it.

If the drop is the only calibration, that would be fine. I can figure out the rest off that. The way I learned to draw out frames was to start with the drop anyway, so most of what I do is based off that.

I did love the fully calibrated jigs at UBI. We had the Arctos, which is pretty slick. There were a couple Anvil's around and then a few Henry James jigs which were probably least intuitive of the options. Such big $$ though

Having something that forces me to double, triple and quad check everything I do may not be a bad thing. I also learned that putting all your trust in a jig or fixtures calibrations can create headaches too, they're not always correct.

Even with the Arctos I was only tacking in the jig b/c of clearance issues. I'll check into Doug Fattic's jig, I think I've seen photos of it before, but hadn't checked into price.

Thanks guys!

[e-RICHIE]

Even with the Arctos I was only tacking in the jig b/c of clearance issues.

The way to optimize any fixture and your skills is to only tack (rather than braze...) in it atmo.

[Craig Ryan]

For the $ it's your best bet. I've used mine for about the last 40 frames and curse it regularly. We've come to understand each other. In the end it's just a way to hold stuff together while you get it mitered, pinned, and tacked. I've developed a different routine for the rear triangle, and I'm not sure I'd change that given another jig.

[Alistair]

I wonder how far folks have gone in adding on calibrations and features to these entry-level fixtures. hell, let's see 'em. and I like Joe. I try not to buy chit from folks I can't get along with. I'm funny like that.

Wade, I just finished building a jig and calibrating/adding scales to it. It's a blatant rip off of the Arctos jig, and was a collaborative effort with another garage builder here in Seattle, my friend Alex Wetmore, the chap who ran the f'builders list serve for so many years. The jig is made from 8020 brand extrusions. I machined all the other odds and sods, except for a couple of crucial parts that were CNC'd by Alex.

Because it's made from extrusions, I think the Arctos is often dismissed by some builders, and thought to be overpriced by others. Having built a clone of one, and having learned a lot about how it's made, and what it's made from, I'd say that $5000 seems totally fair, but maybe that's just me.

That all being said, I went a different direction. I spent about $800 in materials, and about $2000 on a basic benchtop mill and some tooling, then I put the time in and built the jig myself. It took me quite a while, since I was simultaneously learning how to use a milling machine and how to build a jig. Steep learning curve, but I've always wanted to learn how to run a mill (I taught myself how to run a lathe a few years back, 9" SouthBend), and I've always wanted to build my own frame fixture, and now I have.

Here's a few pic's















For more of the same, here's the complete Flickr set, Frame jig. - a set on Flickr

Alistair.

[Jeff Buchanan]

If I had it to do over I would find a large cast iron surface plate or blanchard ground steel surface to work from. In retrospect, the ability to check alignment and make corrections prior to the final brazing will produce an accurate, straight frame and fork. I had heard and read respected framebuilders claim even the best jigs won't produce a straight frame, I now know it's true. Proper mitering and brazing sequence seem to produce the best frames

[prolix21]

If I had it to do over I would find a large cast iron surface plate or blanchard ground steel surface to work from. In retrospect, the ability to check alignment and make corrections prior to the final brazing will produce an accurate, straight frame and fork. I had heard and read respected framebuilders claim even the best jigs won't produce a straight frame, I now know it's true. Proper mitering and brazing sequence seem to produce the best frames

That's kinda how I'm leaning after all this discussion and too much thinking about it. Get a flat surface, go for it. I think I got enough feel out of my first frame to give it a shot. The jig and whatnot were a good crutch a the time

You're right in that the jigs guarantee nothing. Even the Arctos and Henry James are a complete crap shoot, and those things are some serious $$. Heat is everything

[Willie1]

Alistair, when I priced out the cost of materials to make my own jig, I bought a used Bringheli. I don't have a lathe or mill yet, but do want both (not for framebuilding, but other things.) I figured building my own jig wouldn't be a good idea until I had at least 10 frames under my belt. Still currently at 1/2 frame LOL. Spring yardwork on an acreage with a recovering knee is very time consuming and gets in the way of my play time.