Bike 0001

[Luke]

Sexy metal...

[Luke]

Just ordered up one of these....

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Item # 1554-1

It's actually for setting up and centering a trueing stand,
but with two small spacers it can represent a 135mm dummy axle pretty well.
It can then be swung and pointed toward the BB to check for dropout alignment.
Cheap alignment tool for the frame jig.
;)

[e-RICHIE]

Macro fugikcn rules atmo.

[Luke]

More macro...
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[Luke]

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RS should make chess pieces...

[Luke]

A collective look at a few hours work with files and paper.
Not too exciting, really. Nothing too impressive.
I am having a blast bringing all of these parts together...
(Just started on the BB this morning)
The rest of the day includes a short run, some swimming, and hopefully a ride before dark.

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[Craig Ryan]

Luke, save your final shoreline prep for after it is all fit up and ready to braze. Predrill your pin holes in your lugs before fit up. Don't overstretch them. Good luck, ask questions. You're using the very best parts for this. Let's make it successful.

[Luke]

Luke, save your final shoreline prep for after it is all fit up and ready to braze. Predrill your pin holes in your lugs before fit up. Don't overstretch them. Good luck, ask questions. You're using the very best parts for this. Let's make it successful.

Thanks Craig,
"Let's make it successful." That's OH-SO-COOL!
The best parts, the best teachers, and me. (2 out of 3 aint bad)
Questions to follow for sure...

<Directed to anyone and everyone, as well.>
Common finish nails for the pins???
What dia. hole for pre-drill?

More to come...

[e-RICHIE]

Thanks Craig,
"Let's make it successful." That's OH-SO-COOL!
The best parts, the best teachers, and me. (2 out of 3 aint bad)
Questions to follow for sure...

<Directed to anyone and everyone, as well.>
Common finish nails for the pins???
What dia. hole for pre-drill?

More to come...

Get finishing nails sold by weight at the hardware store, and a #51 (or similar) bit.
Don't over think this atmo.

[Luke]

Question....

(As an example RS Flikr IMG 4387)

This is a great shot of fitment of the BB.
What do you guys do to 'close-up' the lug points around the ST and DT...or any lug point for that matter???
My instinct would be to grab some heat and a small clamp, or a body hammer. YIKES...
and close it up tight. Maybe braze one side and then 'suck' in the other.

Thanks in advance ;)
<Going to go sleep in the fridge now>

[Craig Ryan]

Sometimes a small tap, sometimes a little clamp, sometimes a channel lock pliers during brazing. That photo was taken during fit up, so Richard hasn't addressed the shorelines, or worried about the points yet. When assembled w/flux it will likely fit snug.

[Luke]

Sometimes a small tap, sometimes a little clamp, sometimes a channel lock pliers during brazing. That photo was taken during fit up, so Richard hasn't addressed the shorelines, or worried about the points yet. When assembled w/flux it will likely fit snug.

I wasn't as far off as I thought. I've used locking C-clamp pliers in similar aplications...'wicker-bills' as carpenters call them.
;)
Thanks for the quick reply!

[Luke]

Question on consumables...

Time for a shopping list:
Flux and rod...where to get it, and specific specs hitherto??

I've never used the past type flux as seen in all of these pics.
(Always heated the rod and shoved it in the powder flux)

No. 3 or No. 5 brazing tip OK???

School me flamethrowers....

[Jonathan]

Cycle design for filler and flux. Buy both tips and figure out which one works better for you on some practice joints.

[e-RICHIE]

It reads as though you are a brass rod cat atmo. For this first frame it won't cut it - this much I glean from your posts thus far. Get some 56 percent silver alloy rod and appropriate paste flux and teach yourself how to use it for lap joints. It must be said: all that nice sanding and edging will likely turn into one big mess of filler metal unless you are hiding some mad skills not mentioned yet. I use a number 2 tip, wide open. My suggestion is that you start smaller and work through about 10-15 sample joints before you even get near the work you've already mapped out. Better yet, be systematic and do several dozen at a minimum. Where to find these practice materials is a good question because so much of it is out of the mainstream. You are trying to learn/teach yourself in a vacuum and some of the glamorous stuff will soon turn tedious when you put aside the A.O. cloth and files and reach for the torch atmo.

Question on consumables...

Time for a shopping list:
Flux and rod...where to get it, and specific specs hitherto??

I've never used the past type flux as seen in all of these pics.
(Always heated the rod and shoved it in the powder flux)

No. 3 or No. 5 brazing tip OK???

School me flamethrowers....

[Luke]

It reads as though you are a brass rod cat atmo. For this first frame it won't cut it - this much I glean from your posts thus far. Get some 56 percent silver alloy rod and appropriate paste flux and teach yourself how to use it for lap joints. It must be said: all that nice sanding and edging will likely turn into one big mess of filler metal unless you are hiding some mad skills not mentioned yet. I use a number 2 tip, wide open. My suggestion is that you start smaller and work through about 10-15 sample joints before you even get near the work you've already mapped out. Better yet, be systematic and do several dozen at a minimum. Where to find these practice materials is a good question because so much of it is out of the mainstream. You are trying to learn/teach yourself in a vacuum and some of the glamorous stuff will soon turn tedious when you put aside the A.O. cloth and files and reach for the torch atmo.

Brass cat for sure. You hit that on the nose...this is a new venture. I certainly have the balls just to jump into this as I have...but the reservations are there too.
I don't want to fuck up these sexy tubes/lugs...so practice is inevitable. I'll make a few practice joints before touching anything near my frame jig.
Half of the brain makes me want to puke from nerves...afraid to fail; the alternate half of the brain says it's only metal Luke.
I don't know...

[e-RICHIE]

Half of the brain makes me want to puke from nerves...afraid to fail; the alternate half of the brain says it's only metal Luke.
I don't know...

It is only metal that is for damn sure. But it's also experience. And if you are asking others to share theirs with you, a compromise should
exist and your efforts should be tempered. Having seen so many do exactly what you are doing - and in clear view of the internet - my
comment about respecting experience comes from having shared it before atmo.

[prolix21]

Brass cat for sure. You hit that on the nose...this is a new venture. I certainly have the balls just to jump into this as I have...but the reservations are there too.
I don't want to fuck up these sexy tubes/lugs...so practice is inevitable. I'll make a few practice joints before touching anything near my frame jig.
Half of the brain makes me want to puke from nerves...afraid to fail; the alternate half of the brain says it's only metal Luke.
I don't know...

Your practice joints will help get rid of the nerves and give you a better feel for what the silver will do. On my first I was a shaky mess, but if you're at all familiar with soldering or brazing you'll be fine. Use the heat and just remember that the silver wants to follow it. Feed it into the joint at a couple key spots and use the heat to pull it though and you'll get nice and clean shorelines and good penetration. The other thing to remember is if things get out of control you can pull the torch away. It seems obvious, but when you're in there trying to pull the silver through and getting everything hot it's the first thing you'll forget. Cut your practice lugs in half, you can learn a lot from that.

[Luke]

I respect experience, and hold all of you in high regard.

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"Happiness only real when shared." -Christopher McCandless

[Curt Goodrich]

Just to pile on, practice. If you're nervous, which you've mentioned, then more practice is in order. Also, past experiences are helpful but rarely do people have experience with thin tubing and the tight tolerances like that of frame building. If brass is something you're more comfortable with then there's no harm in using that. I've been plenty happy with flux and brass from Gasflux.

I was looking at pictures of your fixture. I think the tube holders are generally a bad idea and are unnecessary. A bad idea because they, at best, introduce unnecessary complexity. In a worst case scenario, the tube holders will introduce stresses that will show up after you've brazed the frame together and twisted your frame out of alignment. The tube holders are unnecessary because what matters is the head and seat tubes are in the same plane and perpendicular to the bb shell. The top and down tubes essentially just connect those dots. Putting pressure on the top and down tubes in their middles (like the holders you've made) makes it more difficult to succeed in building a straight frame. At least that has been my experience and I've used my fair share of jigs.

On your shoe shined lug pictures, look closely at how you've rounded off the edges. When you get the frame together, fix that with a file and file backed sanding. Shoe shining is a perfectly acceptable technique in other metal working practices but in frame building it's sloppy. Good luck and practice.