Automobiles

[j44ke]

Keep my car plugged in most of the time. Still definitely learning. It tops up to 80% and stays there. Actually 79% and I’m not sure why. Word is that 20%-80% is the sweet spot for battery health.

I definitely try to precondition before I’m going to leave and then yes, it’s using shore power. The heat pump and other mechanicals activate and are working. I left the house to get breakfast a couple hours ago and that trip only used about 3% because I had preconditioned. Had I just gotten in it would have used significantly more trying to get the batteries to optimal temperature. It makes me think about when I might go somewhere.

The charging at home is the real game changer. If you can’t do that it’s much harder to justify an EV. Level 1 is viable for local, short commutes, etc. But for anyone who drives longer daily errands or commutes a level 2 charger is the way to go. I’m glad I got mine installed. It’s super easy and convenient.

Is there some sort of software switch (either in the car or in a phone or computer app) that limits the recharge to 80% to protect the battery? I seem to remember that being a feature in some cars.

[sk_tle]

Probably a parameter set by default.

I have my samsung smartphone set that way too. Something called battery saving mode.

[Saab2000]

Is there some sort of software switch (either in the car or in a phone or computer app) that limits the recharge to 80% to protect the battery? I seem to remember that being a feature in some cars.

Yes. The battery setting is easy, whether in the car or in the app. I have my default maximum set to 80% and it's easy to change in an instant if I'm on a road trip. The highest I have yet charged to is 85%.

The Model Y drives and exists way more like a car than an SUV. I have a Tiguan, which is a compact to mid-size SUV (compact in the US market) but it's a space efficiency beast. So it works like a much larger vehicle for passengers and cargo. The Model Y is touted to have nearly the same volume, but it's divided into many smaller parts, like the front trunk and the aft under-floor storage. These are indeed super useful but volume for a large object (like a bike.....) is less obvious. The sleeker shape is less efficient inside than the boxier Tiguan.

The Tesla also drives more like a large, slightly lifted hatchback. It doesn't have the spice and chuckable nature of the GTI, but it's definitely more fun than the Tiguan. The speed and power are always impressive but it's not really about that in 99.99% of driving. It's extremely easy to operate at normal speeds. The "Auto Pilot" (adaptive cruise control) is very good and the "Auto Steer" is pretty good as well. I don't have the FSD (Full Self Driving) and based on my experience with the two former functions and the videos I've seen make me think we're nowhere near real FSD and likely closer to a class action lawsuit from those who have spent big dollars on the technology only to have it constantly pushed back. We're not there yet.

But if expectations are for a good car that is super efficient and "pretty fun" to drive Tesla has met the target. As an EV it's great. As a car it's good. As a daily driver I don't come near the battery limitations so in this context, which is 99% of my driving, it's an excellent car. No question.

I've had it now for 4 weeks and my total energy cost is USD$90. I think that will come down actually as I will eventually go for fewer drives just for fun. Not too bad.

Probably a parameter set by default.

I have my samsung smartphone set that way too. Something called battery saving mode.

I wish Apple iPhones had the same settings. Not changing brands, but that's a good setting to have available.

[rwsaunders]

I wish Apple iPhones had the same settings. Not changing brands, but that's a good setting to have available.

Go to battery health & charging in the battery settings on your iPhone and you can turn on the optimized battery charging setting.

[Too Tall]

I'm not familiar with the behavior of all vehicles, but I think most EVs will use 'shore power' to keep the battery temp in a useable range if plugged in. For winter trips we have the car 'precondition' while plugged in, which uses power from the plug to get the battery and interior warm before you set off. With the Tesla heat pump you end up not using a whole lot of extra power on cold trips if you precondition. I suspect that's not the case with resistance heater vehicles (like the ford).

On my one winter trip to AK it was interesting seeing every long-term parking spot having a plug next to it for block heaters. I was used to seeing them for diesels, but every car was plugged in overnight there.

When I was living in Rock Springs, Wy it was a shooting offense to park in front of someone else's extension cord. When the temps are consistently -10F and lower a KATS block heater is de rigueur for gas engines. At -20F vinyl bench seats won't flex and your tires have flat spots for the first mile.

It's tough out there!!!

[bigbill]

When I was living in Rock Springs, Wy it was a shooting offense to park in front of someone else's extension cord. When the temps are consistently -10F and lower a KATS block heater is de rigueur for gas engines. At -20F vinyl bench seats won't flex and your tires have flat spots for the first mile.

It's tough out there!!!

These are the stories I hear whenever I suggest we move to Wyoming as our primary residence. I've mentioned the affordability of houses in central Wyoming, but my wife lived there for 20+ years and has no desire to do another winter. My FIL lives in an apartment near us in AZ for the winter. We'll take him back to Wyoming in April. He has a 1991 Ford F350 dually quad cab. He's almost 80, and we don't want him driving in the winter, so we bring him south, so he's not a hermit all winter in his Wyoming apartment. His Ford has a gas engine (351W). My wife and I both have diesels, but no block heaters. We recently replaced the glow plugs in her 2007 Chevy 2500.

My son was home for Christmas. In 2020, I bought him a 2018 Ford Escape. He wasn't allowed a car at USNA until his junior year. Now that he's a Marine lieutenant with a paycheck, he wants to get a newer vehicle in the summer of 2023. The Escape is still in my name and under my insurance, so in my twisted view of finances, I told him I'd give him $10K towards a newer vehicle and take the Escape back. With both of us driving 3/4 ton trucks, the 30 mpg Escape makes sense for shopping, going to the campus, and supply trips to PHX. 6.7L Powerstroke, 6.6L Duramax, and 1.5L Ecoboost. I'll put a 2" receiver on the Escape for my Kuat rack.

[AngryScientist]

The charging at home is the real game changer.

Yes, the great current conundrum is that an EV is perfect for a city dweller who makes short trips, but generally doesnt have a garage or dedicated charging place.

[Saab2000]

Yes, the great current conundrum is that an EV is perfect for a city dweller who makes short trips, but generally doesnt have a garage or dedicated charging place.

Yeah, that’s the downside. Also, apartment or condo dwellers will have a challenging sitch at times. I’m fortunate to have a big garage for a car and bikes, and now with a charger. It’s absurdly convenient.

[rec head]

Yes, the great current conundrum is that an EV is perfect for a city dweller who makes short trips, but generally doesnt have a garage or dedicated charging place.

I'm not disagreeing but a lot of stores around here that have parking lots have chargers. The Target near me has 8 Tesla chargers and they seem to get a lot of use. They also have 4 "everyone else" chargers for the rest of us.

[htwoopup]

I'm not disagreeing but a lot of stores around here that have parking lots have chargers. The Target near me has 8 Tesla chargers and they seem to get a lot of use. They also have 4 "everyone else" chargers for the rest of us.

So interesting how infrastructure impacts EV, or perhaps it is other way around (chicken or egg?).

In Mont Tremblant, there are a plethora of Teslas, a mind numbing amount of Kona/ Mustang/ Ioniq/ every other brand of car in EV.

There are also parking spaces with charging at all the various hotels, a lot of parking spaces in town, EVERY gas station, and many shopping lots. Interestingly, the Tesla branded chargers are in the grocery store lot that is the “cheap” “downscale” market, not the overpriced chi chi IGA in town.

In addition to the normal reasons for wanting to go EV, the volume of chargers here (all supplied by hydroelectric power) really made us look into an EV even with the giant fall-off in battery caused by the cold here.

The thing that stopped us from jumping on getting an Ioniq or EV6 wasn’t the stopping to charge on the way to our New York City home; it was that when we get to NYC there are only two plugs at a parking space a block away from our apartment and we haven’t been able to find any others or a parking garage with charging within 15 blocks (a mile and a half for you non-NYers) in any direction from us.

On a somewhat related note, there have been recent news articles up here about what are we going to do with all of the used up EV batteries that are just now being discarded. I don’t know if those are planted by the fossil fuel lovers in Alberta or not but it is something that people are jawing about at the local pubs.

[vertical_doug]

[vertical_doug]

On a somewhat related note, there have been recent news articles up here about what are we going to do with all of the used up EV batteries that are just now being discarded. I don’t know if those are planted by the fossil fuel lovers in Alberta or not but it is something that people are jawing about at the local pubs.

There is a lot of misinformation on recycling but there is also some legitimate criticism.

The recycling infrastructure is behind the curve with EV batteries, but as the EVs become more common, the infrastructure and investment will increase. The biggest criticism for non-recyclable EV batteries was directed at NIMH Batteries used by the Nissan Leaf.
These are hard to recycle, but not unrecyclable. Japan has recently open a plant to recycle/ refurbish NIHM batteries in Fukushima. (Yes, the earthquake / nuke plant disaster) but the Japanese Gov is promoting investment in the region for redevelopment.

I expect a combination of recycle, refurbish, and secondary use (load balancing for renewables) as uses of older EV batteries.

I suspect a lot of the information you are seeing is being funded by fossil fuel industry who are copying the game plan used to climate change and the tobacco industry to sow doubt and poo poo the adoption.

As a fair criticism, historically some recycling has just been collecting waste in wealthy countries to ship it to poor countries to be 'processed'. Oftentimes, this just meant an unscrupulous local dumping it in a less regulated landfill.
The most egregious example of this is probably the ship-breaking business in Bangladesh.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...ds-legal-fight

[32x20]

There is a lot of misinformation on recycling but there is also some legitimate criticism.

The recycling infrastructure is behind the curve with EV batteries, but as the EVs become more common, the infrastructure and investment will increase. The biggest criticism for non-recyclable EV batteries was directed at NIMH Batteries used by the Nissan Leaf.
These are hard to recycle, but not unrecyclable. Japan has recently open a plant to recycle/ refurbish NIHM batteries in Fukushima. (Yes, the earthquake / nuke plant disaster) but the Japanese Gov is promoting investment in the region for redevelopment.

I expect a combination of recycle, refurbish, and secondary use (load balancing for renewables) as uses of older EV batteries.

I suspect a lot of the information you are seeing is being funded by fossil fuel industry who are copying the game plan used to climate change and the tobacco industry to sow doubt and poo poo the adoption.

As a fair criticism, historically some recycling has just been collecting waste in wealthy countries to ship it to poor countries to be 'processed'. Oftentimes, this just meant an unscrupulous local dumping it in a less regulated landfill.
The most egregious example of this is probably the ship-breaking business in Bangladesh.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...ds-legal-fight

Good response. My reasoning has been: If CO2 is the bigger environmental threat (and harder to sequester) then address that first, and the infrastructure will catch up to mine the valuable battery components at end of life.

Unrelated note: I find myself more bummed than I'd expected about the news of Ken Block's untimely passing. I'm not a fanboy, but I suspect for a lot of older (male) millennials like myself he played a big part in our early-adult years via media influence. The Gymkhana videos are still fun to watch.

[72gmc]

I expect a combination of recycle, refurbish, and secondary use (load balancing for renewables) as uses of older EV batteries.

This is also where I expect to see some creativity in the years to come. To my non-expert mind, there must be a lot of lower stress applications where used EV batteries could be effective.

[Saab2000]

I think the raw materials will be too valuable to just landfill them. A recycling industry will arise. I’ve already seen videos from entrepreneurs who want in.

[bigbill]

The industries must adopt a standard, like the French and their nuclear plants.
https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news...-can-oui-learn

[sk_tle]

I think the raw materials will be too valuable to just landfill them. A recycling industry will arise. I’ve already seen videos from entrepreneurs who want in.

In some cases recycling is worse for the environment than landfill.

Simple example. Main recyclement of plastics nowadays is by using materials to build roads. A lot of roads in India have been resurfaced with plastic waste. Sounds nice eh? Reusing materials we don't know what do do about.

Except that it is the worst idea ever. Roads are subject to abrasion from vehicule use which lead to more microplastics being rejected in the nature. Keeping all this plastic waste in controlled containers would have been better for the environment.

Bottom line: build less, buy less, keep longer, travel less and stop using a fucking car every day. That is the only decent solution. EVs are pretty much greenwashing. Most of EV usage is only financing the tons of CO2 rejected by its CEO using his private jet everyday. So much for being portrayed by his groupies as a savior.

[sk_tle]

Let's put this here:
https://samcurry.net/web-hackers-vs-the-auto-industry/

[AngryScientist]

Let's put this here:
https://samcurry.net/web-hackers-vs-the-auto-industry/

Super interesting, and super disappointing that the industry would not have had better cyber security built in before some hackers needed to point it out to them.

I'm glad all of my cars are dumb :)

[Saab2000]

In some cases recycling is worse for the environment than landfill.

Simple example. Main recyclement of plastics nowadays is by using materials to build roads. A lot of roads in India have been resurfaced with plastic waste. Sounds nice eh? Reusing materials we don't know what do do about.

Except that it is the worst idea ever. Roads are subject to abrasion from vehicule use which lead to more microplastics being rejected in the nature. Keeping all this plastic waste in controlled containers would have been better for the environment.

Bottom line: build less, buy less, keep longer, travel less and stop using a fucking car every day. That is the only decent solution. EVs are pretty much greenwashing. Most of EV usage is only financing the tons of CO2 rejected by its CEO using his private jet everyday. So much for being portrayed by his groupies as a savior.

All your points are valid, especially about buying less, keeping longer, traveling less and using a car less. The reality is that at least in the US, a car-free life is very, very difficult. That is simply the reality and the result of urban planning a century ago that was based on personal travel and having a lot of space for each house. Why? Because at the time nobody considered the effects of oil consumption and because the US had, at the time, nearly infinite space to house everyone. That's no longer the case of course.

I understand your points and it appears to be becoming more clear by the day that the CEO in question is indeed toxic and foolish and a liability. All that said, I like my vehicle and I believe it is fundamentally more efficient than a comparable gasoline powered vehicle. And since abandoning car usage in my case is essentially impossible I hope I've made the best decision I could. The research I did prior to buying it indicated that it is environmentally less destructive over the life of the vehicle than a comparable gasoline car. I hope that turns out to be the case.