Automobiles

[cs124]

Fun times in Vegas with Porsche GT3RS and Ferrari 488. My fav was the Porsche by quite a long shot.

Tell us more.
I'm a Porsche fan, but everything I read and hear about the 488/Pista/F8 series is that they are just various shades of otherworldly.

[Lionel]

Tell us more.
I'm a Porsche fan, but everything I read and hear about the 488/Pista/F8 series is that they are just various shades of otherworldly.

The Ferrari felt much lighter in the front. While the engine sounds great, it's a turbo engine with a 7500 redline that does not rev up as freely as the NA from the GT3RS. On paper the Ferrari has something like 200hp more than the GT3RS, it certainly does not feel that way. The Ferrari is more nervous on the brakes, the GT3RS is completely composed. For me with a helmet on the driving position on the Ferrari is not as good as the Porsche, my head was hitting the roof. The paddle sifters are better on the Ferrari. The Ferrari has much more torque in low RPMs but it's part of the fun to always keep the Porsche above 5000rpm, once you do this the throttle response of the Porsche and the trip from 5000 to 9000 is a great adrenaline rush.

Anyway, this has convinced me to go track mine in Sonoma or Thunderhill or Lagina Seca.

[Blue Jays]

Visited a dealership to view the Lincoln Aviator and must say that it looks pretty nice.
Eager to give one of those 400-hp vehicles a test drive.

[vertical_doug]

World's most expensive car at centre of legal fight over missing gearbox | Daily Mail Online

rich people problems
(FWIW, Chester Square is right off Elizabeth St where the lawyer lived)

[Saab2000]

I'm wondering if we'll see a final swan song for the Mk 7.5 VW GTI in 2020 in the US. I know the new one is being introduced slowly in Europe but I'm guessing we don't see in the US for at least another year.

If there's a 2020 Rabbit Edition I may consolidate my 2006 GTI and 2018 Tiguan into a single car, since I no longer really need two cars. I really like the spec of that model.

All that said, I'm sure the Mk 8 GTI will be pretty good.

Any VW buffs with inside knowledge?

[Blue Jays]

"...Any VW buffs with inside knowledge?..."

Those straightforward black wheels look terrific, though.
No extra gimmicky styling cues, just pure business. Nice.

[Saab2000]

Those straightforward black wheels look terrific, though.
No extra gimmicky styling cues, just pure business. Nice.

Exactly. If I weren’t a new Tiguan owner when this dropped, I probably would have bought one. It caught me off guard and I test drove one. I like the de-contended nature of it. All I want from a GTI and nothing I don’t.

The local VW store has a lot of GTIs but most are equipped in a way I don’t love.

[Lionel]

This looks pretty good. What engine do they have in these ?

[Saab2000]

This looks pretty good. What engine do they have in these ?

2.0 turbo. 228 horses and more accessible torque than my older GTI. It was a fun car when I tested it.

[Lionel]

2.0 turbo. 228 horses and more accessible torque than my older GTI. It was a fun car when I tested it.

Yeah, all these turbo engines have good low end torque. I still prefer NA.

[Saab2000]

Yeah, all these turbo engines have good low end torque. I still prefer NA.

Not likely to ever see that in a GTI. The last one I recall was the V6 model that understeered even more than a GTI already does.

[Lionel]

Not likely to ever see that in a GTI. The last one I recall was the V6 model that understeered even more than a GTI already does.

There is indeed no way to see this ever in the GTI, or any other cars. The NA engines have been disappearing very fast because of emissions. IIRC my Golf GTI when I was 21 had 136hp. Very fun car.

[Blue Jays]

"...IIRC my Golf GTI when I was 21 had 136hp. Very fun car..."

I similarly have very fond and happy memories of driving with friends in early-1980s to mid-1980s GTI hatchbacks.

[Lionel]

I similarly have very fond and happy memories of driving with friends in early-1980s to mid-1980s GTI hatchbacks.

My fav was the 205GTI 1.9L, 130hp, 800kg. This thing was awesome. Owning this at 19 was quite dangerous; I had a few close calls. The Golf GTI I had after this was more civilized.

[Saab2000]

My fav was the 205GTI 1.9L, 130hp, 800kg. This thing was awesome. Owning this at 19 was quite dangerous; I had a few close calls. The Golf GTI I had after this was more civilized.

My first ever car was a 1975 VW Rabbit, Golf in every other nation on the planet. I got it for $500 in 1990 and it planted the seed of enjoying light, fun European cars in my brain. It was a total POS by then but was oddly enjoyable to drive as well. Next one was a Scirocco, which was an even bigger POS, but was also fun to own and drive.

I bought my 2006 GTI new at the dealership in the Twin Cities after spending quite a few years in Europe driving Opels, including their own sporty cars. Marriage to an Opel dealer's daughter meant VWs were off limits!

Anyway, I have a love of the GTI. It's a great daily driver and over the years mine has proven to be amazingly practical as well.

[jerk]

Yeah, all these turbo engines have good low end torque. I still prefer NA.

the days of small naturally aspirated engines are unfortunately over unless its some exotic hold out like a Porsche. I ordered a one series BMW the last year that that wonderful magnesium straight six was offered. the quintessential modern BMW to me- is a naturally aspirated straight six and it was unfortunately phased out in favor of yet another turbo four banger. you just can't get the mileage where fleet numbers need them with a straight six and still get the power and emissions. BMW held out as long as they could- VW gave up around 2004. it's a technological marvel that you can get these little engines with turbo chargers to have any of the power they do down low. it's nuts- but the computers are so good now- that if you can figure out the fueling- these little turbos in light engines can really make for impressive cars.

I ordered a 128i in white with no options save the M sport package. it was a pretty perfect car. front engine rear wheel drive with perfect weight balance, reasonably light- and 260hp and 230ft lbs of torque from a great engine. it's lightweight magnesium block meant that you couldn't coax much more power out of the thing- but for what it was in that car it was pretty close to a perfect car to drive on legal roads. i really liked that car.

VW's last VR6s were great small NA engines too- I have a GTi with the 24 valve that I did a lot of engine work too along with a bunch of suspension stuff. It was very different than the 1.8 20v turbo that was contemporaneous and I owned both versions of the GTI at the same time. Both cars were pushing about 280hp at the wheels- both had similar Shine Racing suspension set-ups and the exact same chassis, body, tranny, interior etc.- but they were both very different cars. my 3.2 liter vr6 R32 was virtually flawless except for its one fatal flaw- the fact that they didn't offer it with a manual transmission. that car was so perfect in every way- that not being able to row your own gears just made me hate it. every time i drove it it made me abundantly aware of how it was almost perfect and it was frustrating and made me hate the car. (contrast that with my slush box Cayman. It would still be an underpowered neutral well balanced sports car whether it had a clutch pedal or not. I don't really car because it isn't as good as that R32 was.)

anyway- Porsche horsepower has always been different than any other manufacturer's horsepower. it has always driven and performed both viscerally and on paper like a car with far more power. it's great that Porsche still offers an NA rear engined six- and I hope they always will. To me there has never been a better engine this side of an italian v12- better than a real Metzger naturally aspirated six.

i like turbo engines but I love naturally aspirated engines- the 6.4l hemi in my ScatPack was a great engine- the 4.6 Ford v8 in my Bullet was sublime and i've never had a car that sounded better- etc. etc. My Cayman's mill is kind of anemic and doesn't really sound great- but that's only because i'm comparing it to all these other wonderful engines.

[jerk]

Not likely to ever see that in a GTI. The last one I recall was the V6 model that understeered even more than a GTI already does.

the slight difference in weight distribution and resulting increase in understeer could be addressed the same way you addressed the understeer in every GTI from mk1 until the second to last generation when they started putting a bmw style rear suspension in them.

in any case the MKiv gtis that i had handled better than any front wheel drive car i'd ever driven- better than most rear wheel drive cars i've driven. most of this was because i did what that genius magician Dick Shine told me to do. the secret to getting these things to out handle anything in the world- was reasonable dampers that don't lower the car and allow it to make use of it's designed suspension travel- then you put a massive rear sway bar in the thing and if you still need it to understeer less- you take out the front sway bar. it'd get up on three wheels while doing it- but both my 24v vr6 GTI and my 1.8t GTI were front wheel drive cars that came mighty close to almost oversteering. They were just about perfect handling cars. I guarantee you that I could drive either of those cars around an auto cross track faster than any car that size or larger- no matter what that car was....as long as we all had the same tires!

[sk_tle]

If your front wheel drive car doesn't have any lift off overdersteer it isn't setup right for twisty roads.

On the other hand lift off overdersteer can be so dangerous especially in hand of unexperienced and/or untrained drivers, The Pug 205 Lionel is mentionning was a gem but it caught so many drivers in the process that I can understand from a safety point of view why modern FWD have just become point & click understeery pigs. We don't teach people to master left foot braking either.

[Trevor]

It would be great if VW did the Rabbit Edition again in 2020. I would definitely consider getting one. I have an A3 Sportback Manual, which is essentially just a GTI with a nice interior and different badge.

And would go with a hitch rack instead of roof rack...

[Lionel]

anyway- Porsche horsepower has always been different than any other manufacturer's horsepower. it has always driven and performed both viscerally and on paper like a car with far more power. it's great that Porsche still offers an NA rear engined six- and I hope they always will. To me there has never been a better engine this side of an italian v12- better than a real Metzger naturally aspirated six.

Right, after driving the 991.2 GT3RS and the Ferrari 488 back to back on a track, the GT3RS with 200hp less than the Ferrari feels as powerful. But the days of the NA Porsche engines are counted too. The 992 GT3 is still rumored to have one but it will most likely be the last one. This engine, as you say, is truly sublime.