OT: Korean Hybrids vs American and Japanese Hybrids

[sevencyclist]

We have been searching for a Hybrid vehicle. Wife was pro Toyota Prius, because of the track record of having the most customer miles in the market. However, there are some new entries from Korean makers in Kia Optima and Hyndai Sonata Hybrids which seems to be twins. Anyone with experience with these?

The pro for the Prius is the best mileage 51 vs 40, and the hatchback allows good bike transport (though I have a Honda Element, so not crucial factor). The Korean models have the edge of rated as safer cars by IIHS and safecar.gov, although Prius is not too shabby either.

Any experience/ thoughts? Thanks.

[Fixed]

toyota you don't have think about it
it is always ready
imho reliable
cheers

[mimbresman]

I bought a Kia Rio, new, here in Venezuela in 2003. Now it has 130,300 km of pot-holed 3rd world roads. Not a hybrid of course, and their base model, but it has held up fine; the suspension is still solid, steering good, etc. Mechanically, it was flawless for 5 years, then I had to start putting money into it. I still enjoy driving it. It is the longest I've ever owned any particular car. I'd say the weakness of this car has been it is rust prone. We live 1 block from the Caribbean and the rear wheel wells have a good case of car cancer happening. Kia may have addressed this issue by now.
Bottom line: I don't see any real negatives with Korean cars.

[sevencyclist]

I always viewed Honda and Toyota as reliable. Took a trip to Korea this past Holiday season and I was very impressed with the progress. I was struck by how loyal people were to Korean cars. Must be pretty good product.

The long warranty by Kia and Hyundai also confirmed to me that they must be doing things right to have that confidence, so I am giving them a look.

[rmplum]

Well, I gave $500 to our local Hyundai dealer to get my (well our company's) name on the first Sonata Hybrid that is backed off the truck. I usually get to drive/test them for a week or two before they are put on a boat or plane towards Japan. Hoping to have it within the next week or so.

I expect it to be pretty similar to the Camry Hybrid - and certainly not as efficient as the hybrid-from-the-get-go Prius cars. I find the interior of the current Camry to be pretty offputting (the light blue translucent trim is horrid), the Sonata and most of the recent Hyundai vehicles are pretty nice though. I'm not really a Sonata, front-wheel driver type of guy, but the Genesis Coupe and Genesis Sedan were both quite nice cars that I'd be happy to own personally and drive daily.

I had a chance to buy one of our company's Prius test vehicles a few years ago, but passed. The concept of mid 40 mpg figures without even trying was tempting (drove from SE Mich to Cinci and back on one tank of gas, 75-80mph on the freeway and got 46 mpg!), but the things are just completely lifeless to drive. I'd way rather ride my bike to work a few days and have something like a used 2008-ish BMW E61 wagon to drive on a regular basis.

Oh, and the Honda Insight is a complete POS. What a disaster.

[rmplum]

All of these modern cars are very safe - so unless you find something that scored really poorly in one of the various impact tests, I wouldn't worry about it.

[Brandon White]

All of these modern cars are very safe - so unless you find something that scored really poorly in one of the various impact tests, I wouldn't worry about it.

I wouldn't say all modern cars are safe. They may pass tests, but some are obviously safer than others. Living in Fort Lauderdale, I've seen a lot of accidents (some real-time, some immediately after). There are lower-end/lower-model cars that crumble with little impact, some inflicting great injury on the passengers of the car.

[rmplum]

I wouldn't say all modern cars are safe. They may pass tests, but some are obviously safer than others. Living in Fort Lauderdale, I've seen a lot of accidents (some real-time, some immediately after). There are lower-end/lower-model cars that crumble with little impact, some inflicting great injury on the passengers of the car.

That's why I qualified my remark with "unless you find something that scored really poorly".

[Saab2000]

Depending on how you use the car, a Golf Diesel from VW might be a good option. Expect in the neighborhood of 50 MPG on the highway if you cruise at a reasonable (70mph) speed. Hybrids are more suited to stop and go city driving. If you're a long-haul cruiser there are better options.

And a VW Golf is very bike friendly.

[WanderingWheel]

I just returned from an expat assignment in Korea and found the Korean cars quite satisfactory. I had a Sonata for my use, but would have actually preferred a slighlty smaller car because of the tiny parking spaces and crowded roads. It was a fine driver and I had noc onerns about quality. For cycling, however, I think it would be a struggle to fit a fullsize bike in it (I had a folder with me).

Took a trip to Korea this past Holiday season and I was very impressed with the progress. I was struck by how loyal people were to Korean cars. Must be pretty good product.

The Koreans drive Korean cars becuase they have a very high import tax on foreign cars, on the order of 40% I believe. Which made the few low-end Chevy's I saw very curious.

[Saab2000]

The Koreans drive Korean cars becuase they have a very high import tax on foreign cars, on the order of 40% I believe. Which made the few low-end Chevy's I saw very curious.

Most low-end Chevrolet branded vehicles are not US cars. They are in fact Korean, sold under the Chevrolet marque. But they are not, for the most part, related in any way to the Chevys you'll see in the US, except for the bow tie logo.

[Dallas Tex]

Curious, Why Hybrid? The all-electric (w/backup gas generator) Volt has gotten great reviews and comes from a country that doesn't put 40% import tariffs on imported cars.

[Zimmermanbicycle]

I've had my Prius for six years now,96,000 trouble free miles just replaced the first set of front brake pads late last year and I'm not far into my second set of tires,the car costs me about $120. in maintenance a year so far and I can put two bikes in the back without removing the front wheels.
-Eric

[sevencyclist]

I've had my Prius for six years now,96,000 trouble free miles just replaced the first set of front brake pads late last year and I'm not far into my second set of tires,the car costs me about $120. in maintenance a year so far and I can put two bikes in the back without removing the front wheels.
-Eric

That is a great endorsement for the Prius. We have heard similar stories about Prius, the only negative, is probably the "boring drive characteristics." Wondering whether the Korean ones would be a little more peppy given they have slightly larger engine.

[sevencyclist]

Curious, Why Hybrid? The all-electric (w/backup gas generator) Volt has gotten great reviews and comes from a country that doesn't put 40% import tariffs on imported cars.

The reason for Hybrid is because the Volt is $40,000, which is $15000 more than the Prius, Sonata and Optima Hybrid.

[sevencyclist]

Depending on how you use the car, a Golf Diesel from VW might be a good option. Expect in the neighborhood of 50 MPG on the highway if you cruise at a reasonable (70mph) speed. Hybrids are more suited to stop and go city driving. If you're a long-haul cruiser there are better options.

And a VW Golf is very bike friendly.

I love the European Diesels. They are powerful and last forever. However, this car will be the town car that we drive the kids from practices to ballet to lessons to movies, so will not be on freeway for more than 10 miles on any given day. Hybid seems to be the perfect balance of not being too costly like the Volt and decent mileage.

[sevencyclist]

Oh, and the Honda Insight is a complete POS. What a disaster.

Seems like that is the consensus compared to the more refined Prius. I have a Honda Element which I love (except for the fuel economy), so I tried to like the Honda hybrid, but just not feeling it.

[Dallas Tex]

The reason for Hybrid is because the Volt is $40,000, which is $15000 more than the Prius, Sonata and Optima Hybrid.

FWIW, The $7,500 Tax credit (soon to be instant rebate/credit at time of purchase) , makes the one-time cost difference $7,500. Now add in bascially zero gasoline expense for the life of the vehicle. The Prius is basically a gasoline powered vehcile anytime its over 40 mph. Depending on your driving habits, that may be often enough to make the Volt less expensive over the lifetime of the vehicle.

Good luck with whatever you end up buying.

[rmplum]

Seems like that is the consensus compared to the more refined Prius. I have a Honda Element which I love (except for the fuel economy), so I tried to like the Honda hybrid, but just not feeling it.

yeah, the Insights biggest problem(s) is that it does nothing better than the Prius (other than being a small bit cheaper, though Toyota brought the Prius price down a little to counteract this), and a lot of things worse.

The Prius (even the old one) is much nicer inside
The Prius gets better fuel economy
The Prius is bigger inside
The Prius is not uglier

Than Honda came out with the CR-Z. It drives sort of ok (but only if you have it pegged to sports mode), but still doesn't match (or even come close) to Prius fuel economy, even though it's smaller and lighter. The only problem is that all of these non-hybrid (simpler and cheaper) cars like the Cruze Eco, Elantra, etc are now kissing 40mpg too. Oops! Crap, you could get mid 30s with a regular Civic even.

Honda has some nice cars (Accord, Element, Pilot, Ridgeline), but they are totally screwing the pooch on their hybrid game plan.

[Brandon White]

so many things to comment on here ....

+1 on the tax credit being an instant credit. That is a really nice change and will definitely draw more consumers
+1 on euro diesels. My next car will probably be another Golf, but definitely a diesel. BMW and Peugeot are working on a new hybrid vehicle for 2012 (or 2013 - I forget)

The Honda insight was bad when it first came out and I don't know why they are having trouble getting it rolling. The Fit seems like a nice car though - maybe they should partner up and get a hybrid model

I've worked in the auto-industry for over 5 years now, which I think is funny given I drive less than 10 miles per week on average (5 of those miles is to my personal trainer - the other 5 to the grocery store).

Ford really needs to bring their euro and south american models to the US market. They have better gas mileage and even look a bit nicer than the American models.