Vendetta Cycles

[conorb]

Hi Conor,
Getting here quite late and trying to catch up. I've always felt in a similar situation to you in building part time but one big difference seems that you have more remote customers and I'm more comfortable with locals.

How do you go about things like fitting or other options you offer on Vendettas? What do you do if someone isn't completely comfortable on their current rides?

Cheers,
Greg

Hey Greg,

Fitting folks remotely can be an interesting exercise and I approach it as a data gathering experience. I want body measurements, existing bike measurements, and pictures of the person standing and on their current bike. Video is also helpful. If the person is close enough (Seattle, Portland, Bend, etc., ) we'll make arrangements to meet up and that's really ideal, but not workable for everyone.

Sometimes people know what will work for them and they say "give me a 56" or something along those lines. Of course, those are the rare ones.

Normally most clients have a bike that generally works but they want something for a different purpose or like you mention they may not be completely comfortable on their current rides. That's when all of the data and phone conversations are really important.

Another thing that's really worked well is to find a known "fitter" in their area and work with them as an intermediary. It can take a lot of the pressure off but unfortunately not everyone has access to that type of situation, although I have tried actively looking for folks in certain cases.

Ultimately the more data I have the better the discussion and subsequently the better fit.

Thanks,

Conor

[conorb]

Hey, we've got a flickr account.

Vendetta Cycles Flickr

I've been batch loading things - more to come.

Thanks for checking.

Conor

[e-RICHIE]

hey conor - you're a (now) long-time ss lug user/polsher/seller...
does the process and also the remuneration speak to you the same way it did when you first took this direction?
is there a crossroad at which you tire of the labor for any reason at all and would rather focus on another aspect
of assembly that is less time consuming? do you feel you "must" continue the ss thing for any specific reason, even
if it's just because atmo? i'll cop to my reasons for asking way up front; the operation clearly gets folks to look at
frames, but if the work involved increases to a point that it slows the rest of the units in the queue from being made,
is it all worth the while? it's a serious question.

[conorb]

hey conor - you're a (now) long-time ss lug user/polsher/seller...
does the process and also the remuneration speak to you the same way it did when you first took this direction?
is there a crossroad at which you tire of the labor for any reason at all and would rather focus on another aspect
of assembly that is less time consuming? do you feel you "must" continue the ss thing for any specific reason, even
if it's just because atmo? i'll cop to my reasons for asking way up front; the operation clearly gets folks to look at
frames, but if the work involved increases to a point that it slows the rest of the units in the queue from being made,
is it all worth the while? it's a serious question.

Great question, Richard. From a builder’s perspective, polishing adds a significant amount of time the framebuilding process, this time investment has a relatively low financial return, and sanding stainless lugs is, frankly, not very fun. From a customer perspective, the polishing adds a significant amount of cost to the frame without adding anything to its function. So what on earth would cause a builder or customer to “go down the stainless path?”

For us, the answer is at the core of why we build custom bicycles in the first place: Because that’s what our customers want, and we can do a good job of it. We’ve made essentially this same decision in other aspects of building frames. For example liquid paint is less durable than powder coating, as well as being more expensive, so why go liquid? The answer is simple: liquid paint provides a depth and variety of color that simply can’t be matched with powder, and it doesn’t bury our lug lines.

The simple fact that lugged steel bicycles are generally not economically viable for the mass producers provides custom builders with an opportunity to provide something more unique and special for our customers. And after waiting for many months and paying thousands of dollars for a bicycle, we believe we owe our customers something special. Polishing stainless is simply an extension of this philosophy—adding a labor-intensive process that makes a custom bicycle more special for the rider. This is the reason that about 2/3 of our customers commission some sort of polishing on their bicycles—lugs, stem, or logos.

Thanks,

Conor & Garrett

[Chauncey Matthews]

So, is this a game changer or heresy?
LUGS OS SS ROAD NOVA 36MM HT EXTended TOP and Pre-polished :: LUGS :: Nova Cycles Supply Inc.

ps- Been following you guys since day one and am way jealous of your picture taking/presentaion skills!

[e-RICHIE]

Great question, Richard. From a builder’s perspective, polishing adds a significant amount of time the framebuilding process, this time investment has a relatively low financial return, and sanding stainless lugs is, frankly, not very fun. From a customer perspective, the polishing adds a significant amount of cost to the frame without adding anything to its function. So what on earth would cause a builder or customer to “go down the stainless path?”

<cut>

cool atmo.
as long as you are remunerated well.
i wanna see you guys around for a while.

[zank]

Great question, Richard. From a builder’s perspective, polishing adds a significant amount of time the framebuilding process, this time investment has a relatively low financial return, and sanding stainless lugs is, frankly, not very fun. From a customer perspective, the polishing adds a significant amount of cost to the frame without adding anything to its function. So what on earth would cause a builder or customer to “go down the stainless path?”

For us, the answer is at the core of why we build custom bicycles in the first place: Because that’s what our customers want, and we can do a good job of it. We’ve made essentially this same decision in other aspects of building frames. For example liquid paint is less durable than powder coating, as well as being more expensive, so why go liquid? The answer is simple: liquid paint provides a depth and variety of color that simply can’t be matched with powder, and it doesn’t bury our lug lines.

The simple fact that lugged steel bicycles are generally not economically viable for the mass producers provides custom builders with an opportunity to provide something more unique and special for our customers. And after waiting for many months and paying thousands of dollars for a bicycle, we believe we owe our customers something special. Polishing stainless is simply an extension of this philosophy—adding a labor-intensive process that makes a custom bicycle more special for the rider. This is the reason that about 2/3 of our customers commission some sort of polishing on their bicycles—lugs, stem, or logos.

Thanks,

Conor & Garrett

I'll piggyback on Richard's serious question. Why not just charge enough to make it high(er) financial return? You've got something special that people clearly want. You do an outstanding job doing it. You ought to get paid for it, right?

[Gregory Townsend]

Great question, Richard. From a builder’s perspective, polishing adds a significant amount of time the framebuilding process, this time investment has a relatively low financial return, and sanding stainless lugs is, frankly, not very fun. From a customer perspective, the polishing adds a significant amount of cost to the frame without adding anything to its function. So what on earth would cause a builder or customer to “go down the stainless path?”

For us, the answer is at the core of why we build custom bicycles in the first place:

The simple fact that lugged steel bicycles are generally not economically viable for the mass producers provides custom builders with an opportunity to provide something more unique and special for our customers. And after waiting for many months and paying thousands of dollars for a bicycle, we believe we owe our customers something special. Polishing stainless is simply an extension of this philosophy—adding a labor-intensive process that makes a custom bicycle more special for the rider. This is the reason that about 2/3 of our customers commission some sort of polishing on their bicycles—lugs, stem, or logos.

Thanks,

Conor & Garrett

I like your answer to Richard's question Conor, I referenced it in my own SO as I've been doing my share of the stuff but have reservations about continuing.
Cheers,
Greg

[conorb]

So, is this a game changer or heresy?
LUGS OS SS ROAD NOVA 36MM HT EXTended TOP and Pre-polished :: LUGS :: Nova Cycles Supply Inc.

ps- Been following you guys since day one and am way jealous of your picture taking/presentaion skills!

Chauncey, thanks for checking in.

No, I don't see those as a game changer for a couple of reasons.

1) You'll have to redo them once you heat them up (and file on them, and pin them, etc.). Now maybe you've got a head start on the "shape" and maybe you don't I haven't actually seen them.

2) I don't see those as being all that "special" for the customer.

My opinion.

Conor

[conorb]

I'll piggyback on Richard's serious question. Why not just charge enough to make it high(er) financial return? You've got something special that people clearly want. You do an outstanding job doing it. You ought to get paid for it, right?

I guess it's a distinction as to what higher financial return might be. Based on my calculations we "make" about the same amount of money (rate/time) polishing stainless bits as we do making frames.

From a strictly money point-of-view we did recently raise our prices on polishing. Now we don't charge as much as say Dazza or a couple others but my assessment is that he has more "brand value" than we have and can therefore charge more.

I could possibly be wrong in my assessment - based mostly on gut feel.

How would one go about setting pricing levels to ensure adequate rate of return versus - well everything else? I'm probably not be the only one that thinks of this type of thing.

Conor

[e-RICHIE]

I guess it's a distinction as to what higher financial return might be. Based on my calculations we "make" about the same amount of money (rate/time) polishing stainless bits as we do making frames.

From a strictly money point-of-view we did recently raise our prices on polishing. Now we don't charge as much as say Dazza or a couple others but my assessment is that he has more "brand value" than we have and can therefore charge more.

I could possibly be wrong in my assessment - based mostly on gut feel.

How would one go about setting pricing levels to ensure adequate rate of return versus - well everything else? I'm probably not be the only one that thinks of this type of thing.

Conor

if no two frames are (ever) the same, you can't atmo. but you can gauge your output versus your "type" of frame most requested and juxtapose that against the wages yo hope to pull in (and profit you need to make for the organization...). i do not think add-ons should be figured at the same labor rate as the f'building is, but that's just me atmo. the non building chores should come at a premium. ps i sure hope the new SS rates, polishing at all, are retroactive. i'd hate to read about another framebuilder who has to make a month's or even a year's worth of bicycles BEFORE the new rates kick in. few if any of your costs of living are locked in. the same goes for your supply chain. when you decide to raise your price, it starts now atmo.

[Dazza]

I guess it's a distinction as to what higher financial return might be. Based on my calculations we "make" about the same amount of money (rate/time) polishing stainless bits as we do making frames.

From a strictly money point-of-view we did recently raise our prices on polishing. Now we don't charge as much as say Dazza or a couple others but my assessment is that he has more "brand value" than we have and can therefore charge more.

I could possibly be wrong in my assessment - based mostly on gut feel.

How would one go about setting pricing levels to ensure adequate rate of return versus - well everything else? I'm probably not be the only one that thinks of this type of thing.

Conor

Snipped
"Now we don't charge as much as say Dazza or a couple others but my assessment is that he has more "brand value" than we have and can therefore charge more."


I reckon first and foremost
It is about understanding what your value is.
This is different to "brand Value"
The client makes the choice if such and such frame feature (be it stainless or other item) has value to them.

[conorb]

Snipped
"Now we don't charge as much as say Dazza or a couple others but my assessment is that he has more "brand value" than we have and can therefore charge more."


I reckon first and foremost
It is about understanding what your value is.
This is different to "brand Value"
The client makes the choice if such and such frame feature (be it stainless or other item) has value to them.

I agree with your comment completely but also understand that we don't all live in a vacuum.

Our brand is different than your brand (and that's a good thing).

Conor

[conorb]

Stems, stems and more stems

Some stems from the past, present, and future.

On Flickr 'natch.

Conor

[e-RICHIE]

this is a great flickr set atmo.
thanks for taking the time.

[edoz]

this is a great flickr set atmo.
thanks for taking the time.

That is a great set. I don't see how you work with those bear wrestling gloves, though:)

[conorb]

Another set.

All about lugs.

Conor

[conorb]

From the archives.





My left hip. The right one is the same - also replaced.



Mauro, me and Antonio - from 2002 a year after the initial visit. Antonio is now retired and Mauro works for Columbus.



Conor

[conorb]

Hey, we got blogged.

Cycle EXIF

Conor

[datas_brother]

Nice article! I like that green allot.