Vendetta Cycles

[CyclesNoir]

Conor,

It's nice to see you smoked out. You've always been one of the friendlyist and open framebuilding folks on the interweb - spinning of positive energy where ever you go - so Props to You!.

In my opinion, you and Garrett demonstrated, from frame one, among the best defined senses of aesthetic of all the custom builders. When I say this, I mean not only lug designs, but logos, paint color and style, and build-kit choices. Your bikes always seem to visually pop, without going over the top. There is something cohesive about each of your designs, and I have a hard time imagining any of your work feeling especially dated several years from now.

That isn't necessarilly what I expect from a engineering perspective (with no disrespect intended). You've mentioned how the two of you work through designs elements jointly, but what do each of you draw from your backgrounds that you think is important to your aesthetic vision?

Cheers,

RG

[edoz]

First, I'd like to say I enjoy your pics on FNL and you do wonderful work. My questions are how did you come up with the name Vendetta, and do you only build road type bikes? Have you or would you consider doing mountain or track frames? A mtb with polished stainless lugs would be really sweet.

[conorb]

I didn't know that was what the webbernet looked like. So those tubes must be full or porn then eh?

A follow up question if I may - do you find that being in Portland gives you a resource that most other builders in most other cities don't have with so many other builders to draw upon? Is there any kind of competitive vibe in Portland between the builders there to be the biggest/best/coolest....etc?

dave

Dave,

I was just repeating what Senator Ted Stevens of Alaska has said about the internet.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ed_Stevens.ogg

I'm not positive, but there is probably porn in there somewhere. Honestly, I really wouldn't know anything about that.

Since we're south of Portland about an 100 miles or so I don't really consider our little operation part of the Portland scene so to speak but we do occasionally get together with folks and chat about things.

One of the reasons that we're still here is Andy Newlands of Strawberry. Andy has been very instrumental in helping Portland cycling grow and just helping builders in general. Even guys like Mark DiNucci worked with Andy back in the 70's. He's been very generous with his time and tools and expertise to anyone that is willing to show up at his shop and hang out. He's even shared space with up and comers in the past like Natalie from Sweetpea and currently Ben from Argonaut. Andy started out in 1971 and has been doing his own thing ever since. Andy is just a real class act.



Andy also started the Oregon Bicycle Constructors Association which has been instrumental in fostering a collaborative environment between the various builders as well as promoting the Oregon Framebuilders Show the past several years.

Other guys that I see as resources are Eric from down the road in Eugene and both Aaron from Courage and Ben from Argonaut. I might give them a call if I'm looking for a part or two and I'm in a hurry. Eric and I recently went together on a large parts order and it was nice being able to pool our resources and get better deals with the vendor. Something that doing separate orders probably wouldn't have afforded us. There are others, of course, but those guys will actually return my calls.

In terms of who is the biggest and the coolest that contest has already been won by Mr. Sacha White and the Vanilla industrial complex. Seriously though I basically see all of the builders in Portland (and down I5, etc.) as a city with a great local music scene. While some bands might have more exposure than others or perhaps garner greater attention it doesn't make another bands music less valid or inconsequential.

Everyone likes music.

Conor

[edoz]

Dave,


I'm not positive, but there is probably porn in there somewhere. Honestly, I really wouldn't know anything about that.

Did Al Gore invent porn too?

[conorb]

Yes sir Conor, great reply. I've got lots more questions but will (aheem) curb my enthusiasm for now.

Keep 'em coming. I especially like slow-pitch softball questions.

Conor

[zetroc]

Hi Conor, thanks for posting. You mentioned your day job - do you find it challenging to balance your career with your framebuilding? Do you plan to try and grow Vendetta enough to turn it into a full time job?

[conorb]

Conor,

It's nice to see you smoked out. You've always been one of the friendlyist and open framebuilding folks on the interweb - spinning of positive energy where ever you go - so Props to You!.

In my opinion, you and Garrett demonstrated, from frame one, among the best defined senses of aesthetic of all the custom builders. When I say this, I mean not only lug designs, but logos, paint color and style, and build-kit choices. Your bikes always seem to visually pop, without going over the top. There is something cohesive about each of your designs, and I have a hard time imagining any of your work feeling especially dated several years from now.

That isn't necessarily what I expect from a engineering perspective (with no disrespect intended). You've mentioned how the two of you work through designs elements jointly, but what do each of you draw from your backgrounds that you think is important to your aesthetic vision?

Cheers,

RG

Hey Rich,

Wow, thanks for the comments. Garrett has often told me that for being a software engineer that I'm fairly "high-functioning." I usually try to take it as a compliment.

I've always felt that a bike should "pop." Your assessment is really the word that I like to use as well. I've always liked adding a pearl topcoat to a paint job on my own bikes as a way of adding a bit of pizzazz and that practice starting carrying over into the bikes that we built.

I distinctly remember dropping off Garrett's frame to be painted (Vendetta #1) and telling the painter to put some gold pearl over the top of the orange. I always liked how a pearl acted outside in the sun while not really being seen under normal indoor lighting or even darkened skies. For the first few frames we weren't really that conscious of it but after a bit we discovered that we had our own style.

Garrett and I both have a common background in cars. Garrett has his own racecar and we both share a knowledge and love of sports cars in general. So it's easy for us to discuss Miura green or mid-sixties Ferrari light-blue metallic or Hugger Orange in that we both share the same vocabulary.



I do think that being engineers helps us with the idea of developing a package and integrating the design into the bike without as you say, "going over the top." Engineering mottos like Keep It Simple Stupid and form-follows-function are part of the training and in the subconscious. It also helps to have an eye for symmetry.

Personally I'm really drawn to - for lack of a better term - iconic designs. Items like the van der Rohe Barcelona chair or a Rolex Sea-Dweller or a Fender Stratocaster or a Porsche 911 all have that feel of timeless design that I find very inspiring.

Thanks again,

Conor

[conorb]

First, I'd like to say I enjoy your pics on FNL and you do wonderful work. My questions are how did you come up with the name Vendetta, and do you only build road type bikes? Have you or would you consider doing mountain or track frames? A mtb with polished stainless lugs would be really sweet.

Eric,

Thanks for taking the time to write.

To answer your question regarding track bikes - I love track bikes, I absolutely adore track bikes. Yes we build track bikes.



As for mountain bike we would definitely do one and you're right a mountain bike with polished lugs would be really sweet. A hard-tail 29'er would be really cool as well. I'm sure a customer will ask for one someday.

Regarding the name Vendetta that's an interesting story. Well, I'll tell the story and then you can decide if it's interesting or not. Garrett and I had been working on the first frame, his frame, and we had been discussing various names. I had initially thought of calling it "Red Kite" which was a happy, fluffy bunny kind of name and also worked well in terms of having a slogan on the chainstay like "one kilometer to go" or some cheesy thing. We were kicking that idea around and after performing a couple of Internet searches we discovered that there was a bike shop already using that name so we decided to come up with something else.

I told Garrett that I had another idea, an idea completely opposite of fluffy-bunny friendly. He asked, “What?” I just simply said, “Vendetta.” He smiled and immediately said, “we’ll chase you down.” We both laughed hysterically and that was it.

Perhaps with there already being a Strawberry and a Vanilla we should have named our company Chocolate. I'm just picturing the Neapolitan styled shared booth display.

Conor

[conorb]

Did Al Gore invent porn too?

I thought he invented pants.



Conor

[datas_brother]

Hi Conor,

Have you ever had any negative response when people hear you "only" build frames part time? And, along the same lines as Steve's q, about how many frames do you turn out in a year?

Cheers
Kevin

[bfarver]

Hey Conor,

You're right on about Andy. I can't say enough about the guy. I think we've got a nice little framebuilder community going on here in Oregon, and I really appreciate how much expertise you guys have shared with me over the last few years. Conor's wife is also a very accomplished photographer, and I had the privilege one day of having her come to my shop and take some photos.

What's your favorite bike Vendetta has produced, and is there anything rattling around in your head that you'd like an excuse to build?

Thanks for all those hours I spend sanding stainless lugs attempting to match the clarity of yours. HA!

- Ben

[conorb]

Hi Conor, thanks for posting. You mentioned your day job - do you find it challenging to balance your career with your framebuilding? Do you plan to try and grow Vendetta enough to turn it into a full time job?

Steve,

It can be somewhat challenging to balance work with framebuilding. I don't see what we do as a hobby and am careful to treat it as a real business which does take time and energy.

As of now we don't have any plans turn Vendetta into a full-time job. Currently the business isn't at a level where it would support that and Garrett and I are quite comfortable being small.

Thanks for the question.

Conor

[conorb]

Hi Conor,

Have you ever had any negative response when people hear you "only" build frames part time? And, along the same lines as Steve's q, about how many frames do you turn out in a year?

Cheers
Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for hanging out here, I see that you're under 10 posts so welcome to the forum.

I've never personally had a negative response from people when I tell them that we build part-time. That doesn't mean that there may be negative connotations associated with it, but people haven't told me that they bought a frame from some other builder because they were full-time and we were only part-time.

If you dig down a bit I think you'll find that there are a lot of part-time builders out there. Some by choice and some by necessity.

Our goal is to turn out about 10-12 frames a year. This can vary greatly by the type of frame and how much handiwork goes into a frame. A bike with custom carved and polished stainless lugs can easily double the fabrication time.

Conor

[e-RICHIE]

Our goal is to turn out about 10-12 frames a year. This can vary greatly by the type of frame and how much handiwork goes into a frame. A bike with custom carved and polished stainless lugs can easily double the fabrication time.

Conor

i often wondered about cats with day jobs and if the steady paycheck influences the price they set for their frames atmo.
bueller?

[VertigoCycles]

Hi Conor,

I think you two are on to something good and I'm a fan.

What is it about Vendetta that draws your customers in? Is that "Vendettaness" something that you set out to define or is it something that has evolved naturally and defined itself?

[conorb]

Hey Conor,

You're right on about Andy. I can't say enough about the guy. I think we've got a nice little framebuilder community going on here in Oregon, and I really appreciate how much expertise you guys have shared with me over the last few years. Conor's wife is also a very accomplished photographer, and I had the privilege one day of having her come to my shop and take some photos.

What's your favorite bike Vendetta has produced, and is there anything rattling around in your head that you'd like an excuse to build?

Thanks for all those hours I spend sanding stainless lugs attempting to match the clarity of yours. HA!

- Ben

Hey Ben,

I'm definitely in the camp of people that would like to see Andy get more props for his 35+ year commitment to the craft.

As for a favorite bike there are several that I really, really like but one really stands out in that the customer gave us the freedom to do what we wanted and only expected it to be "special." In fact that's what he told us, "make it special and I don't like purple." I'm sure that Garrett would agree with me that the finished frame was both challenging and rewarding.

I always have something in my head that I'd like to build. A new track bike or a new single-speed commuter or something. I do think that for us the next evolution would probably be designing and building our own lugs either as one-off customs or something to be cast as a signature line. Hmm...

Take care,

Conor

[conorb]

i often wondered about cats with day jobs and if the steady paycheck influences the price they set for their frames atmo.
bueller?

I'm still trying to grok this statement.

I have ideas percolating.

Conor

[steve garro]

I'm still trying to grok this statement.


Conor

maybe lay at the bottom of the swimming pool for awhile? - Garro.

[e-RICHIE]

I'm still trying to grok this statement.

I have ideas percolating.

Conor

let me line the question a bit differently atmo -
do you cost of goods out your frame parts and manufacturing to reflect a stand alone business
or does the freedom that comes from the HP routine help keep wolves from the shop door atmo?

[conorb]

let me line the question a bit differently atmo -
do you cost of goods out your frame parts and manufacturing to reflect a stand alone business
or does the freedom that comes from the HP routine help keep wolves from the shop door atmo?

Yes, our business is entirely that - a stand-alone business. We set our pricing based on costs and hours and "brand value." Or at least what we perceive our brand value to be at this point in time given current inquiries and orders. Our pricing reflects our time and energy, or "toil" as Dazza calls it. It is not supplemented or subsidized by anything outside of our business. If we want to buy something then the business buys it.

Now, that being the case I am quite interested in the elasticity of not just our pricing structure but other builders as well. I asked the question to Garro regarding this very idea during his Smoking Out and I believe the subject raises some interesting topics for discussion.

Conor