Kirk Frameworks

[WadePatton]

"The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated."

Mark Twain.

I always loved that quote. Will that fit on a stay? Hey Dave, sorry I didn't get 'round here sooner. Jumped right to the end too, as I'll be a couple of days digging through the previous 200 posts! Before I complete that I can say without reservation that I dig what you do and really enjoy interacting with you and your wonderful wife each year at NAHBS. I also appreciate your contributions to my "generation" of builders.

I'll "edit in" further commentary here if at all nec.

Cheers and good powder to ya,

WP

[Dave Kirk]

I always loved that quote. Will that fit on a stay? Hey Dave, sorry I didn't get 'round here sooner. Jumped right to the end too, as I'll be a couple of days digging through the previous 200 posts! Before I complete that I can say without reservation that I dig what you do and really enjoy interacting with you and your wonderful wife each year at NAHBS. I also appreciate your contributions to my "generation" of builders.

I'll "edit in" further commentary here if at all nec.

Cheers and good powder to ya,

WP

I suppose jumping to the end wasn't like starting a good book and then not being able to resist turning to the last page to see how it ends. I don't know that we've really built any suspense or any tension here that can be resolved by getting to the end to see what happens to our heroine.

That is unless this has all been a set up and that your entry is the start of the tension and mystery! You'll let us know in time I suppose. I can hardly wait to see what happens.

dave

[WadePatton]

What a read. Great stuff Dave. Awesome work pulling the lurkers out. I thought of some questions here and there, but forced myself to finish reading it all. I'll have to go back through to refresh myself and ask them. but not tonight.

Now I'm off to find some Goldratt discussions before I drift off.

[Dave Kirk]

What a read. Great stuff Dave. Awesome work pulling the lurkers out. I thought of some questions here and there, but forced myself to finish reading it all. I'll have to go back through to refresh myself and ask them. but not tonight.

Now I'm off to find some Goldratt discussions before I drift off.

Very good. I look forward to your questions. have you read The Goal by Goldratt?

Dave

[WadePatton]

Very good. I look forward to your questions. have you read The Goal by Goldratt?

Dave

No, I want too, but will have to order one. I'm just picking up here and there. Read some bit about single-source supply last night at a Goldratt site AGI-Goldratt Institute - [Late Night Discussions - 2]. Always learnin'.

WP

[Dave Kirk]

Well it's finally happened - it's vacation time here at Kirk Frameworks and the whole shebang gets shut down for a week starting this afternoon. The Lovely Karin and I are road tripping through the Canadian Rockies to see what there is to see. Since I won't be around for this weeks FNL and will not have email/internet/phone I thought I'd plaster my shots a day early here. This is a fast century bike set for fat-ish tires, fenders and a front rack. Should be a very nice place to spend the day.

See you on the other side.

Dave

[Dave Kirk]

This was moved from Townsends S.O. to here to keep stuff on track -

Re: Townsend Cycles
Thank You Dave,
I just finished reading your smoked out & was hoping for a moment to respond but I'll have to do it here. One thing I greatly appreciate is when you talked with me about where I wanted to go with frame building. It got me thinking that small is OK & I'm quite comfortable with being a local sort that builds a few frames & does the occasional repair when I have time.

I have already put aside the time to travel to Texas so with a little luck will get a chance to see everyone again.

BTW,
I see you have an interest in a certain auto marque so can add this little bit of useless info.
Lotus was local to us in Hethel near Norwich & they allowed us to use their test track for racing once or twice a year. I remember one race being stopped mid way through so a plane could land on return from the Continent. One of the provisions for our use was Colin Chapman may need it at any time & we would have to wait for the all clear. That was about as close as I got to ever meeting him.
Gregory Townsend
Welcome to Townsend Cycles Ltd. Custom Frames
Flickr: Gregory Townsend's Photostream


Hey Gregory,

I recall those conversations we had at NAHBS very well. What year was that? They all blend together for me. I very much enjoyed talking with you and your lovely wife. - Yes I think small can not only be OK but it can be best. Huge amounts of money and time are often wasted in trying to be something bigger than we want to be or are capable of being............ but growth is often seen as the only acceptable path. Of course growth can be good but not at the expense of profitability. If a builder can stay small and in absolute control and make enough profit then that can be enough. Slow, self financed, organic growth is a very good thing.

And yes I'm a huge Lotus and Colin Chapman fan. I've heard that he would shut down track days/races at Hethel by coming in in his plane without warning. I think that must have been an exciting time at Lotus with the world laying at their feet. I would have liked to have visited there then. The crew of people they had at time time are the who's who of the movers and shakers of modern sports car design now and they all got thier hands dirty and made stuff. A cool time IMO.

Thanks for the comments.

dave

[Gregory Townsend]

I recall those conversations we had at NAHBS very well. What year was that?

I think it was 2007 at San Jose.

And yes I'm a huge Lotus and Colin Chapman fan.

. A cool time IMO.

Agree, I even had a couple of frames with black/gold paint like the John Player Specials of the time. A Europa or Lotus Cortina just like the one you restored are in my list of autos I'd like to have someday.

I also remember seeing remnants of various cars about the factory building and wonder if any of them ended up being fixed up/restored or headed for the scrap bin.

[Dave Kirk]

I think it was 2007 at San Jose.





Agree, I even had a couple of frames with black/gold paint like the John Player Specials of the time. A Europa or Lotus Cortina just like the one you restored are in my list of autos I'd like to have someday.

I also remember seeing remnants of various cars about the factory building and wonder if any of them ended up being fixed up/restored or headed for the scrap bin.

I think you are right - San Jose in the Big Tent! I didn't like that tent.

I've wanted to do a JPS black bike for some time and I think it would be simple. The Lotus Cortina with ermine white and sherwood green would be much harder to get right.

I image a lot of junk that folks would kill for now hit the dumpster hack in the day at Lotus. too bad but that is the way it work I guess.

dave

[Dave Kirk]

Warning - blatant self promotion directly ahead -

I've introduced some new stuff and outlined it all in much too much detail on my blog. The short of it is that a new lugset is available to make a horizontal top tube version of the JKS and this same lug is now used on the JK Cross. There is also a new model aimed at the big guy/rough road/spring classics crowd and it's called the JKS X. Max fans should take note. You can read about the stuff here - Kirk Frameworks Custom Bicycles

Here are a few shots of the new JKS X. Thanks for looking.

Dave

[Lionel]

Very cool Dave.

Are you using Dazza lugs? Will this bike take a 30.4 seatpost?

[nahtnoj]

Seeing these frames in the raw got me thinking.

If I were to get a frame, and request that you work with JB on the colors so that it came out as a Lotus homage, what would the result be?

[Dave Kirk]

Very cool Dave.

Are you using Dazza lugs? Will this bike take a 30.4 seatpost?

Hey Lionel,

Yes the new lugs are all Dazza's stellar work. I'm pleased to offer them. The JKS X will be supplied with a 30.6 mm post made for the bike. Details to follow.

Dave

[Dave Kirk]

Seeing these frames in the raw got me thinking.

If I were to get a frame, and request that you work with JB on the colors so that it came out as a Lotus homage, what would the result be?

Good idea.

Off the top of my head I can see two different paint schemes in my mind's eye. The first and most obvious would be Lotus Green and Yellow. All of their early sports racing cars and Formula 1,2,3 cars where painted this way and they are cool and classic. The other idea that comes to mind is Johnny Player Special black and gold - it wouldn't hurt to have the old Playboy logo on there too to add to the look. it would be really fun to work on one of these.

Thanks again,

Dave

P.S. I just thought of a third scheme if you are a fan of mid 60's Lotus saloon cars - Ermine white with a Sherwood green 'flash' would pay proper homage to the giant killer Lotus Cortina.

[Gregory Townsend]

Good idea.


P.S. I just thought of a third scheme if you are a fan of mid 60's Lotus saloon cars - Ermine white with a Sherwood green 'flash' would pay proper homage to the giant killer Lotus Cortina.

That's funny Dave,
I have a photo of a Lotus Cortina as a potential color choice for clients. I tend to migrate to a lot of greens & blues and love the ermine white for contrast. No takers yet so it may take years before I actually build one.

Greg

[Dave Kirk]

That's funny Dave,
I have a photo of a Lotus Cortina as a potential color choice for clients. I tend to migrate to a lot of greens & blues and love the ermine white for contrast. No takers yet so it may take years before I actually build one.

Greg

I was lucky enough to own a 1966 Lotus Cortina for a number of years. I bought it in very rough shape and restored it to the point where I was scared to use it and sold it when prices went through the roof. I doubt I'll ever be able to afford another. It was a really fun car to flick around and on a curvy road not much could stay with it. It was my first Lotus and I miss it. Sob.......

Dave

[Gregory Townsend]

That's a great shot and a gorgeous car,
I can understand the pain of not having it anymore.

[Dave Kirk]

That's a great shot and a gorgeous car,
I can understand the pain of not having it anymore.

Thanks - I thought you might understand.

You know I realize that a good bit of my posts have something to do with cars and with Lotus cars in particular. I suppose there are a few reasons for this and just to give the non-car guys a reason I'll press this forward a notch.

I think one of the reasons that cars are a inspiration to me is that my father John, whom the JK Series is named after, was a race car mechanic of the highest order. He died when I was a kid but his love of design and clever engineering of all mechanical things has left a deep mark on me. He thought that things should be simple and clever and if at all possible, beautiful. There was always room for beauty.

Another reason is my appreciation of the work of Colin Chapman - the founder of Lotus. He was a mechanical genius whose influence is still being felt in everything from F1 to commuter cars despite the fact that he passed away in the early 80's. I would have liked to have seen what he would have done with bike design given the chance. His company Lotus of course went on to design and offer the Lotus TT and road bikes that earned more than a few medals in competition.

The other thing, that to me, is striking about auto design - particularly race car design is the obsession with simplicity and efficiency. This quest in auto design is huge as the machines are very complicated by their very nature. To take a machine with so many systems (power, cooling, control...etc) and make it simple is a huge task and when done well it is stunning. To most, bikes seem like they are just the opposite of a car - they are simple by nature and don't need much thinking. I suppose that could be true to an extent but I love thinking about it and trying to find a better way to make the bike do what it should do. I love the challenge. Despite the fact that I prefer to work with what might be considered to be the most traditional material one can use I like to set tradition aside and question everything. Why do we do what we do and what could we do differently and better? I used to cringe every time we at Serotta were told that we do it a certain way because 'that's the way we've always done it'. In many cases the old way is the best way and the questioning that confirms it. But in other ways we find that a small tweak gives better results or that if we throw out the design altogether we can start anew and have something better. It's not much different that when I set up an autocross car. There are baselines to set and then adjustments to make and those adjustments upset previous adjustments that then need to be remade............. and so on and so forth......... until you can find nothing that can be better. I think I've never found that my car or my bike has reached that point and, as cliche as it might sound, if I get to the point where nothing can be improved then I'm getting out of the business and buying lottery tickets.

To me car and bike design are so much alike that they are hard to separate in my mind. Take the fixed amount of power that you have and figure out the best way to get it to the ground and have the rider/driver be able to maintain the best control in the widest range of conditions. And at the same time make the device a joy to use. If it's not fun to use then there is little point to it IMO. All the best race machines are simple and fun to use at the limit and work with the pilot and when that comes together it's really magical.

I really like it. Thanks for reading.

Dave

[nahtnoj]

Thanks Dave. Those Cortina colors do it for me.

[Dave Kirk]

Thanks Dave. Those Cortina colors do it for me.

I wonder how one could best work those colors into a bike scheme so it looked cool and still harkened back to the LoCort?

Dave