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    Default Strong Frames

    I’m going to skip past the “why I got into Framebuilding”. I think it’s enough to say it was for the passion. I’ve raced since I can remember, wrenched since Jr. High, built things all my life and it was just what I was “suppose” to do. Frankly I’m not sure I even decided to get into Framebuilding, I think Framebuilding just got into me and I’m along for the ride. So with that said I thought I’d focus on what Framebuilding has taught me about myself. Fortunately for me, it taught me something that I didn’t know at the time and may never have learned otherwise.

    Like most people starting a business I’d been taught from an early age that “bigger is better”. The lessons were fed to me directly and indirectly by pop culture, my jobs, school and everywhere else in my life. So when I finally did start to build for money, it was pretty natural for me to want to grow my business. There seems to be some assumed business model that any ambitious framebuilder follows. We’re not taught it or told to do it, we just do it. I suppose it’s because we make a bunch of assumptions about all the companies we see around us. That model is to start small, promote, develop production, stock material, build a distribution network and scale. We all do it to one extent or another. How many shop pictures have you seen with 10 front triangles hanging above the bench, or boxes and boxes of tubes on the wall, or custom builders selling through retailers? I’m ambitious so I needed to put that energy somewhere and growth was the obvious place.

    In the early years of my professional Framebuilding career I had enough success growing my business that I slowly migrated from the bench to the desk. It started with a partner, than an employee and soon a couple employees and after a while over 10 employees. Loretta and I notice that as our company grew I had to pay more attention to the phone, interviews, evaluations, training, etc. and I missed being just a Framebuilder. In all fairness had we been wildly successful and making tons of money I may never have looked back. But the actuality of it was that we were always just scraping by.

    After the birth of his first child, my partner Tony just didn’t seem to love the business anymore. We all talked, he left, and it was amicable. That’s when we took a step back and looked at what we had built. It was really the first time we took a good hard look. What we saw was a business that we didn’t want. Loretta has always been a great supporter and been there for me “taking one for the team” but once that can of worms was opened she let me know she had no love for the business either. Thanks to her I finally figured it out. I didn’t want any of the things we had worked so hard to get and I had been heading down the wrong road for quite some time.

    Loretta and I like to joke we could have both paid for a Masters in Business for what it cost us to learn. While I enjoy business, value what I’ve learned and take my business very seriously where I’d rather be is at a bench not a desk and my ambition is for my craft in general and material in particular. So now Loretta runs the show and I focus on clients and building their frames.

    All us builders tend to find an area of the craft that turns our crank. For some it’s brazing or carving lugs, for others it may be fit, paint or integrating the perfect rack and lighting system. For me it’s material application. I’m best known for TIG and build with steel, titanium, aluminum and carbon. In a pinch I can build a lugged or fillet frame although I prefer to leave that up to the pros. I like clean simple designs with no adornment. I view the bike as a tool and focus on performance bikes. I like to tune the fit and geometry but most off all, like fitting the material to the rider and optimizing material attributes and the processes that provide them.

    I’m in this to build frames. To cut and burn my fingers, go to work clean and come home dirty. I like the smell and sound of the welder and I love the smell of new tires. Nothing beats pulling a newly assembled bike off the stand and checking out its shape and the way it sits on the ground. I love building frames and I feel lucky every day that Framebuilding found me.
    Last edited by Carl S; 05-10-2010 at 10:08 AM.
    Carl Strong
    Strong Frames Inc.
    www.strongframes.com

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    Default Re: Strong Frames

    Thanks for the post.

    In your webisodes, you mention having the sign from your old bike shop, and how it hangs on your wall to remind you not to open a bike shop again. Could you go into some background on that venture? What made you decide to close that door and concentrate on custom frames?
    steve cortez

    FNG

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    Default Re: Strong Frames

    Carl,
    I'm excited to follow this thread! I was very impressed with your seminar at NAHBS 2007 and remember a lot of the pearls of wisdom that you dropped for me.

    I'm wondering where you think that "sweet spot" is for the size of a custom bike builder's business. After going through your growing pains, do you think if you tried to grow again that you could avoid the same pitfalls? Is a one man shop with (maybe) an apprentice as good as it gets? Or do you think running a production shop with 10-20 employees and higher efficiency a better way to make it?

    I'm thinking maybe it's somewhere in between, controlling costs (tubes, paint) and still being able to get dirty... But I don't have your experience under my belt.

    Thanks,
    Matt

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    Default Re: Strong Frames

    Quote Originally Posted by cardinal View Post
    Carl,
    I'm excited to follow this thread! I was very impressed with your seminar at NAHBS 2007 and remember a lot of the pearls of wisdom that you dropped for me.

    I'm wondering where you think that "sweet spot" is for the size of a custom bike builder's business. After going through your growing pains, do you think if you tried to grow again that you could avoid the same pitfalls? Is a one man shop with (maybe) an apprentice as good as it gets? Or do you think running a production shop with 10-20 employees and higher efficiency a better way to make it?

    I'm thinking maybe it's somewhere in between, controlling costs (tubes, paint) and still being able to get dirty... But I don't have your experience under my belt.

    Thanks,
    Matt
    Hi Matt, it's different for everyone. For me it's a mom and pop shop with an occassinal apprentice (when the right person comes along). Loretta is doing all the office and administrative duties so I'm free'd up to focus on clients and building. A lot has to do with your product and your personality. I think it's best to just boil it down to what you want to be doing all day. When my business was larger I talked on the phone and managed people all day, now that it's smaller I still talk on the phone but I'm also building rather than having others do it. .

    Also, I think a single person custom shop can proably create nearly the same income that they could running a larger business so in the end I don't think it's about money. One significant difference I will point out is that if you can create a brand and system that is strong enough you may not need to work as much in the long run and ultimatly may be able to sell the business but as a single person shop you have to work to make money which can be scary if you consider your income can dry up if you are sick or injured.
    Carl Strong
    Strong Frames Inc.
    www.strongframes.com

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    Default Re: Strong Frames

    Carl, somehow I relate to what you have said most so far in smoked out because of the tig welding component. Right to the point, When you grew your company to 10 employees was that related to Ibis? I seem to remember lots of tools moving to Montana. If so where did the tooling go, what technical frame building skills did you learn during that time and are you planning on retirement? You are one of the most successful frame builders there are and it doesn't seem like you are week to week or month to month so what is your future? If you could change your career what would you do?
    cheers, Wade

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    Default Re: Strong Frames

    excellent perspective and congrats on figuring out the direction that you wanted to go...
    and then getting there.
    very well done.

    honorary mba* for both of you.

    * masters of bicycle assembly

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    Default Re: Strong Frames

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveP View Post
    excellent perspective and congrats on figuring out the direction that you wanted to go...
    and then getting there.
    very well done.

    honorary mba* for both of you.

    * masters of bicycle assembly
    Thanks Steve!!
    Carl Strong
    Strong Frames Inc.
    www.strongframes.com

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    Default Re: Strong Frames

    Carl,

    Here's a loaded question.

    You give a seminar at NAHBS "the business of framebuilding" which focuses on the do's and dont's of being a professional framebuilder. Have you ever had any of the folks that have taken your seminar call or email you later and say "wow! my business has turned around since that seminar!" ? If so, did you get the feeling you were really helping develop and cultivate our niche of the industry?

    Frankly, I think its wonderful that you would offer all the info that you have learned while getting your MBA in framebuilding... Thanks for doing it!

    DW

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    Default Re: Strong Frames

    Quote Originally Posted by vulture View Post
    Carl, somehow I relate to what you have said most so far in smoked out because of the tig welding component. Right to the point, When you grew your company to 10 employees was that related to Ibis? I seem to remember lots of tools moving to Montana. If so where did the tooling go, what technical frame building skills did you learn during that time and are you planning on retirement? You are one of the most successful frame builders there are and it doesn't seem like you are week to week or month to month so what is your future? If you could change your career what would you do?
    cheers, Wade
    Hi Wade, thanks for asking. BTW I'm glad to see you back in the biz.

    When my company was at it's largest about half the frames I built were for Ibis, a quarter for Strong and the other quarter for other small private labels. We did move all the Ibis tooling up here and had a 7000 s/f shop where we did the building. Ultimately when Ibis went under TST had first position on the tools and so they split them with me 50/50 and I moved to my current shop. I still have a lot of them but a lot were junk and many were totally unnecessary and I slowly got rid of them over the years. I'm not sure I technically learned any major framebuilding lessons during that time but I got the repetition that you need at every aspect of the job. I think that time taught me more about business than it did framebuilding.

    As for retirement, I hope to never stop building although as I grow older I may continue to reduce my output. I'm also aware I won't be able to work forever so I do have a retirement plan and will be able to continue supporting myself once I stop building. As a self employed person it's very important to remember that you're going to have to depend on yourself for your golden years and you can't start early enough. That's why I get so worried seeing builders just scraping along their entire career. You have to be able to invest in your retirement on top of the overhead of life and other responsibilities like health insurance, etc.

    If I could change my career? hmmm...I'm not sure but I have a feeling it would be making something.
    Carl Strong
    Strong Frames Inc.
    www.strongframes.com

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    Default Re: Strong Frames

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl S View Post
    As for retirement, I hope to never stop building although as I grow older I may continue to reduce my output. I'm also aware I won't be able to work forever so I do have a retirement plan and will be able to continue supporting myself once I stop building.
    Curious: When you do stop building do you see yourself selling off the company to a promising young builder (maybe one you've trained), or will you dissolve it? Or is that thinking too far ahead?

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    Default Re: Strong Frames

    Quote Originally Posted by theckeler View Post
    Curious: When you do stop building do you see yourself selling off the company to a promising young builder (maybe one you've trained), or will you dissolve it? Or is that thinking too far ahead?
    Hopefully I'll never have to quit but if I do I imagine the business won't have any value so if sell anything it will just be the shop tools.

    Which brings me back to Conor's question about branding. I might have made a more absolute statement than I should have. I said selling frames isn't only about the bikes but in some cases it can be. A framebuilding business can be anything and I think the further you get from the builder the more likely you are to build intrinsic value and have a sellable business.

    The one caveat is that as a custom builder you probably have to start by building the brand around the builder and work out from there. Most will never get beyond that but many won't ever get to that. That's why in my business seminar I talk about a business model based on a single builder working from home. If you are gong to make a living in this business that's where you have to start. Once you accomplish that you can decide where to go from there. Different people have different skills and goals in my case I tried to grow out but learned that it wasn't for me and I went back to a one man (and wife) operation. Currently I work from a commercial space but it's my goal to build a shop at my house and move back to my home.
    Carl Strong
    Strong Frames Inc.
    www.strongframes.com

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    Default Re: Strong Frames

    Quote Originally Posted by zetroc View Post
    Thanks for the post.

    In your webisodes, you mention having the sign from your old bike shop, and how it hangs on your wall to remind you not to open a bike shop again. Could you go into some background on that venture? What made you decide to close that door and concentrate on custom frames?
    Hi Steve, thanks for the question. I'll try to keep the answer short. I'd always wanted a bike shop. When Strong Frames was about 10 years old we built a building. The building is located a block off of main downtown so I thought it would be the perfect location to open that bike shop. the concept was like a brew pub in that the bike shop had a big window that look into the frame shop. I planned to be a Pro Shop with Strong Frames, high end parts and apparel and really great service. Then I figured I'd hire a manager and I could go about my framebuilding while the manager ran the bike shop. Looking back I can see that there is no way that I had the business's experience I needed to start a business from scratch and hand it over to a manager. It takes mature systems and organization and I hadn't built or developed those systems yet. I thought the right manager could do that. As it turned out the Bike shop was quite successful but it required a ton of babysitting on my part. I was already busy running Strong Frames and basically ended up with a second job. Neither business was getting the love that it deserved and I had to decide if I wanted to be a bike shop owner or framebuilder and chose to be a framebuilder.
    Carl Strong
    Strong Frames Inc.
    www.strongframes.com

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    Default Re: Strong Frames

    What do you check when you have a frame on the alignment table, and what are your tolerances?
    Eric Doswell, aka Edoz
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    Default Re: Strong Frames

    Quote Originally Posted by edoz View Post
    What do you check when you have a frame on the alignment table, and what are your tolerances?
    Hi Edoz, when I do the final alignment check I put the frame on the plate and I use a centerline reference for most elements. I hold the frame by the BB and I measure the whole thing without moving it. I measure HT twist and offset. I make sure the Seatube and dropouts are centered on the same plane as the headtube. I also check that the stays are equal distance from the centerline and perpendicular to the plate.
    I try to keep the key measurements within about five thousands over the length of the frame although at that tolerance anyones readings will change if the sun comes out, the frame is moved, I sneeze on it etc, etc. So I use the results more as a validation of my process rather than a valuation of my results.

    I'd also like to add that as I'm building the frame I continually check it on the plate to assure that it is behaving as expected. I try to avoid most if not all cold-setting and use welding sequence to control it's distortion. As I progress through the building process I can predict what it will do and if I stay on top of it, at the end I'll just be reading the alignment and won't have to make any adjustments.
    Carl Strong
    Strong Frames Inc.
    www.strongframes.com

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    Default Re: Strong Frames

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl S View Post
    So I use the results more as a validation of my process rather than a valuation of my results.


    that is fucking brilliant atmo.
    props to carlstrong.

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    Default Re: Strong Frames

    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    that is fucking brilliant atmo.
    props to carlstrong.
    I'm pretty sure Loretta wrote that part.
    "It's better to not know so much than to know so many things that ain't so." -- Josh Billings, 1885

    A man with any character at all must have enemies and places he is not welcome—in the end we are not only defined by our friends, but also those aligned against us.


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    Default Re: Strong Frames

    Quote Originally Posted by Archibald View Post
    I'm pretty sure Loretta wrote that part.
    he uses a SuperMistress atmo.

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    Default Re: Strong Frames

    Yeah, that was one of most refreshing posts to read in a long time. It's nice to read the reality of the situation regarding alignment.
    Mike Zanconato
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    Default Re: Strong Frames

    Thanks, Carl. I think it's great how you can concentrate on being ultra efficient and still be able to sweat things that the rider won't notice.
    Eric Doswell, aka Edoz
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    Default Re: Strong Frames

    Hi Carl, When you sequentially weld to keep alignment,what sort of pull are we talking about? On the same subject, how many tacks would you typically use? I,m assuming you may have a slightly different approach between butted and straight guage,steel and titanium.

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