Strong Frames

[Carl S]

Carl, i took that stab, but moved it to general discussion as I think it's discussion on it's own: subject: where do you go from here

I'll keep an eye on it. I have no desire to follow that type of business model but it is always fun to think about.

[Dave Kirk]

Since we live in the same town I get to see many of your bikes on the roads in and around Bozeman. What percentage of your work stays local and what is sold elsewhere? Do you do much overseas or do you keep it domestic?

dave

[Carl S]

Since we live in the same town I get to see many of your bikes on the roads in and around Bozeman. What percentage of your work stays local and what is sold elsewhere? Do you do much overseas or do you keep it domestic?

dave

Hi Dave, on average I sell about 2% - 3% of the frames I build here in town. Most of my stuff is out of state domestic but I do sell about 20% out of the country.

[Dave Kirk]

Hi Dave, on average I sell about 2% - 3% of the frames I build here in town. Most of my stuff is out of state domestic but I do sell about 20% out of the country.

Cool. Do you have issues with exporting stuff like customs and with people wanting you to declare a low value on the bike so they can pay lower duties?

Dave

[YiPsan]

Carl,

Thank you for all the macro view information. Those are really good discussion.

Sorry, I did not get to say hi to you during the shows. Next time, I will make sure I stop by.

No questions here, just really want to thank you. As a new guy, it is never too early to think ahead.

Cheers,

Renold

[Tommy Nash]

Carl,

Thanks as always for sharing your insights!

Hmm questions... what was your least favorite part about production building?

I'm psyched to start playing with Ti this winter, got a trick to share?

[ashwa64]

carl,

you have provided some really valuable content. your thoughts/perspective are greatly appreciated.

thanks.

[Carl S]

Cool. Do you have issues with exporting stuff like customs and with people wanting you to declare a low value on the bike so they can pay lower duties?

Dave

Some people do ask me to falsify the value in order to save them VAT but I won't. It's frustrating for me because it puts me in an uncomfortable situation and is some cases I've had really angry customers because they think it's no big deal. I think it is a big deal because in order for me to under claim the value I'd have to produce and submit false documentation.

[Carl S]

Carl,

Thank you for all the macro view information. Those are really good discussion.

Sorry, I did not get to say hi to you during the shows. Next time, I will make sure I stop by.

No questions here, just really want to thank you. As a new guy, it is never too early to think ahead.

Cheers,

Renold

Hi Renold, I didn't get out of the booth much myself. It was super busy at the show this year and normally I try to get out and see and meet most of the other builders. Hopefully we'll meet in Austin. Your stuff looks great and I'm really Glad to see things are going well for you. Keep up the good work!!

[Carl S]

Carl,

Thanks as always for sharing your insights!

Hmm questions... what was your least favorite part about production building?

I'm psyched to start playing with Ti this winter, got a trick to share?

The business didn't allow me to focus on one bike at a time which is how I like to do things. Probably the wost part was sitting down with stack of bb's and ST's and welding the same joint over and over. I prefer the work flow of an entire frame where I get to move from one process to the other and see the frame come to life. It's a lot more satisfying and interesting.

[Carl S]

Carl,

Thanks as always for sharing your insights!

Hmm questions... what was your least favorite part about production building?

I'm psyched to start playing with Ti this winter, got a trick to share?

Any tricks to share? Way to general. Once you get started with titanium and have some question let me know. I'll be glad to help in any way I can.

[Carl S]

carl,

you have provided some really valuable content. your thoughts/perspective are greatly appreciated.

thanks.

Thanks, it's been a lot of fun.

[Tommy Nash]

Any tricks to share? Way to general. Once you get started with titanium and have some question let me know. I'll be glad to help in any way I can.

Yeah I just wanted to ask two questions.

I'll fire on all cylinders one I've got my feet wet!

[zank]

Hi Carl,
Thanks for all of the incredible insight so far. I have a question for you regarding financing. Some guys view it as something to avoid at all cost and it's best to save and pay cash for tools and improvements. I lean more towards financing being a key part of the sustainability and growth of a business. I'm a little less adverse to risk. Where do you stand? With the changes in your business over the years, did financing or aversion to it help/hinder?
Thanks!
Mike

[TMB]

Some people do ask me to falsify the value in order to save them VAT but I won't. It's frustrating for me because it puts me in an uncomfortable situation and is some cases I've had really angry customers because they think it's no big deal. I think it is a big deal because in order for me to under claim the value I'd have to produce and submit false documentation.

I want to chip in here, on Carl's behalf.

I want it known I think Carl and Loretta are super people and do a great job.

I have a Strong frame or two kicking around and Carl and Loretta have gone way above and beyond to deliver a super product, on time, every time.

The last one was a sterling example.

I did not want the frame delivered to my home in BC for two reasons; 1) Fedex for a frame from Bozeman to BC is complete insanity, and 2) both Fedex and UPS bolster their bottom lines by "brokering" packages into Canada.

The problem with this brokering business is that bicycle frames and parts are generally non-dutiable in Canada and under NAFTA are a protected shipment so should not attract tax either. In BC, bike frames and parts are non-taxable. So, no "brokering" should be required.

The first frame I bought from Carl was shipped to my house in BC. Combined, Fedex freight and brokerage was over $500.

The last frame and fork I asked the Strong team to ship the bike to me on vacation in Arizona, which they did ( thank you again) and I brought it home with me in the car. Total cost at the border on the way home $0.

The notion that someone would ask for value to be declared low is insanity as the insurance coverage will be based on declared value.

I understand the motivation, but for frames coming into Canada - it makes no difference at all.

The biggest cost for shipments to the GWN is simply Fedex and declared value has no effect on that.

[Carl S]

Hi Carl,
Thanks for all of the incredible insight so far. I have a question for you regarding financing. Some guys view it as something to avoid at all cost and it's best to save and pay cash for tools and improvements. I lean more towards financing being a key part of the sustainability and growth of a business. I'm a little less adverse to risk. Where do you stand? With the changes in your business over the years, did financing or aversion to it help/hinder?
Thanks!
Mike

Hi Zank, I'd say in the scheme of things I'm not risk adverse but in the case of my framebuilding business I really tried to avoid borrowing. With the exception of my building and a powder coat system I was able to pay for everything out of operations. I will add that I took very Little money out in the early years for myself and almost everything I have is old, beat up, used, cobbed together, restored or some combination of each. The way I see it is that if you invest money that you borrow it needs to make more than it costs. So I suppose if that's the case I'd be all for it but I'm glad I don't have any business related debt today.

[Carl S]

I want to chip in here, on Carl's behalf.

I want it known I think Carl and Loretta are super people and do a great job.

I have a Strong frame or two kicking around and Carl and Loretta have gone way above and beyond to deliver a super product, on time, every time.

The last one was a sterling example.

I did not want the frame delivered to my home in BC for two reasons; 1) Fedex for a frame from Bozeman to BC is complete insanity, and 2) both Fedex and UPS bolster their bottom lines by "brokering" packages into Canada.

The problem with this brokering business is that bicycle frames and parts are generally non-dutiable in Canada and under NAFTA are a protected shipment so should not attract tax either. In BC, bike frames and parts are non-taxable. So, no "brokering" should be required.

The first frame I bought from Carl was shipped to my house in BC. Combined, Fedex freight and brokerage was over $500.

The last frame and fork I asked the Strong team to ship the bike to me on vacation in Arizona, which they did ( thank you again) and I brought it home with me in the car. Total cost at the border on the way home $0.

The notion that someone would ask for value to be declared low is insanity as the insurance coverage will be based on declared value.

I understand the motivation, but for frames coming into Canada - it makes no difference at all.

The biggest cost for shipments to the GWN is simply Fedex and declared value has no effect on that.

Thanks Jim!

[Carl S]

Hi Carl,
Thanks for all of the incredible insight so far. I have a question for you regarding financing. Some guys view it as something to avoid at all cost and it's best to save and pay cash for tools and improvements. I lean more towards financing being a key part of the sustainability and growth of a business. I'm a little less adverse to risk. Where do you stand? With the changes in your business over the years, did financing or aversion to it help/hinder?
Thanks!
Mike

PS, I'd be a lot more inclined to borrow money if I had a good back- log and needed it to fill orders. Not so much if it was out in front of the demand.

[JFW]

Thanks for sharing your experiences and knowledge, Carl. Great stuff. And before asking my question, I'd like to make a comment on "Smoked Out" and the general knowledge sharing in the industry. Beeing an ethnologist and analyst by training, it's pretty obvious to me that there must be a certain business ethic - or perhaps practice - in the US that is quite different from Europe. I don't know whether that is due to the demographical differences (traditionally, that is) among the framebuilders on the two continents or whether it's due to a more "driven" business culture that understands that one build an industry and a market together - not as a single manufacturer. I'll leave that up to reflection for those interested, but I do think that most of us located over here in the old world which where interested in framebuilding before the dawn of the Interned have experienced great difficulties in regards to getting knowledge and insight from the traditional Euro-builders. Whereas (?) in the US there seems to have been a more open and sharing community dating back to the early seventies - and then we're back to the demographics of the industry... Well, enough rambling.

My question goes like this: I'm located in a high cost country with a strong currency - meaning that to be able to make a sensible living over here I would have to make around 50 frames per year at a price that is sensible/fair here in Norway - but then again quite high when selling abroad (Germany, UK and so forth). So: Do you see a pattern in regards to where you sell the majority of your frames abroad? Or to rephrase that: Are your foreign customers mainly from countries where the exchange rates goes in the customers favour?

Truls
Hølen, Norway

[Carl S]

Do you see a pattern in regards to where you sell the majority of your frames abroad? Or to rephrase that: Are your foreign customers mainly from countries where the exchange rates goes in the customers favour?

Truls
Hølen, Norway

Hi Truls, I don't follow currency enough that I'd recognize a pattern but before the financial mess we've been in for the last 2+ yeas when the Euro was so much stronger than the dollar I did sell a lot of frames in those countries. That was when my international sales were at their highest level. For a while a saw a dramatic reduction in international sales although they're starting to build again. I'm ot sure why but it sees that these days I'm selling more frames to customers in Asia than anywhere else although I am currently building a frame for a customer in Norway.