The Vaccine Thread

[beeatnik]

I know four people who are immunocompromised and cannot get vaccinated. They're living very solitary lives right now because vaccination rates aren't high enough for them to be able to move about and live their lives safely.

Sadly, they will never be high enough. I think of this when I feel some relief that my mother didn't live long enough to experience this pandemic. She was so immunocompromised that she died of a fungal infection that has killed less than 100 people in 30 plus years. She may have been the first person in CA to die of this infection.

[ctak]

That's exactly the correct characterization. I believe Octave's assessment that vaccination can lower transmission and possibly limit variants of concern. I don't believe that the vaccinated are at risk from the unvaccinated; otherwise, they would be at high or higher risk from the vaccinated, who where I live are the vast majority. So, if more people under 50, as those over 70, follow a personal risk calculus and get vaccinated because they worry about severe outcomes (as unlikely as they may be) then we can move forward to accepting endemicity.

Vaccination may in fact increase transmission:

Oh, and lest we forget: Pfizer has a long track record of making false claims.

"Pfizer has faced thousands of lawsuits filed for medical injuries caused by some of its most popular drugs. It has also set a record for the largest fine paid for a health care fraud lawsuit filed by the U.S. Department of Justice. Pfizer paid $2.3 billion in fines, penalties, and settlement for illegal marketing claims."

Source Seeger Weiss LLP: https://www.drugdangers.com/manufacturers/pfizer/

[zetroc]

Sadly, they will never be high enough. I think of this when I feel some relief that my mother didn't live long enough to experience this pandemic. She was so immunocompromised that she died of a fungal infection that has killed less than 100 people in 30 plus years. She may have been the first person in CA to die of this infection.

I'm sorry for your loss. Please get vaccinated and encourage others to do likewise.

[j44ke]

Can you ask your friend if he has had more than two patients in his hospital express that regret?

And for those who take these anecdotes at face value: have you ever seen cancer patients smoking outside oncology offices?

So a friend telling another friend something that is the direct result of their experience at work - does that qualify as an anecdote? The definition of anecdote includes unreliability. Is it necessarily unreliable? Not journalistic - no direct interview of the intubated patient or corroboration of their identity - sure.

And that last line is kind of a sneaky back-of-the-hand, you must admit. If someone says yes I have, then they admit to taking things at face value and if they say no I haven't, then they admit to being naive. Which is better or more desirable to be?

[beeatnik]

I'm sorry for your loss. Please get vaccinated and encourage others to do likewise.

Why do you assume I'm not vaccinated?

[zetroc]

Why do you assume I'm not vaccinated?

Why are you assuming that I'm making assumptions? Please get vaccinated and encourage others to do likewise.

[ctak]

Remember when J&J was putting asbestos in their talc powder?

https://www.asbestos.com/news/2021/0...me-court-talc/

[ctak]

Remember when J&J was putting asbestos in their talc powder?

https://www.asbestos.com/news/2021/0...me-court-talc/

Note the date - just a few months ago, J&J was still trying to f*&k over people they injured.

[j44ke]

Vaccination may in fact increase transmission: ...

Just taking a moment to welcome ctak to the forum. I find it surprising that so many new forum members go straight to the more political discussion threads in the Off-Topic section. Please do make use of the more On-Topic sections of this forum. There is a lot here to review and discuss that involves framebuilding, bike repair, cycling gear, cycling kits, and other aspects of cycling. And of course, you are welcome to share photos of your bicycles in the Gallery section, ask questions of framebuilders in the Smoked Out section, and file your ride daily/weekly reports in the General (On-Topic) section of the forum.

[beeatnik]

So a friend telling another friend something that is the direct result of their experience at work - does that qualify as an anecdote? The definition of anecdote includes unreliability. Is it necessarily unreliable? Not journalistic - no direct interview of the intubated patient or corroboration of their identity - sure.

And that last line is kind of a sneaky back-of-the-hand, you must admit. If someone says yes I have, then they admit to taking things at face value and if they say no I haven't, then they admit to being naive. Which is better or more desirable to be?

Second statement was more of an illustration of meta-narrative and the nature of reliable reporting. Or put another way, my understanding of the vaccination narrative is not edified by these stories (many unreliable) of stubborn individuals asking for a life saving treatment (or jab) at the moment of no return. Same applies to the nearly hundreds of cancer patients I witnessed either rejecting chemotherapy or continuing to smoke as they received chemo; they all died. Very few, I'm certain, expressed regret at a precise end of life moment. I dont know. We can ask the oncologists or palliative medicine doctors around here.

[beeatnik]

Please encourage those who should get vaccinated to do likewise.

fify

[j44ke]

Second statement was more of an illustration of meta-narrative and the nature of reliable reporting. Or put another way, my understanding of the vaccination narrative is not edified by these stories (many unreliable) of stubborn individuals asking for a life saving treatment (or jab) at the moment of no return. Same applies to the nearly hundreds of cancer patients I witnessed either rejecting chemotherapy or continuing to smoke as they received chemo; they all died. Very few, I'm certain, expressed regret at a precise end of life moment. I dont know. We can ask the oncologists or palliative medicine doctors around here.

That is a much better way to write a good point. Thanks man.

[zetroc]

fify

I don't see what you "fixed", but please get vaccinated and encourage others to do likewise.

[ctak]

Just taking a moment to welcome ctak to the forum. I find it surprising that so many new forum members go straight to the more political discussion threads in the Off-Topic section. Please do make use of the more On-Topic sections of this forum. There is a lot here to review and discuss that involves framebuilding, bike repair, cycling gear, cycling kits, and other aspects of cycling. And of course, you are welcome to share photos of your bicycles in the Gallery section, ask questions of framebuilders in the Smoked Out section, and file your ride daily/weekly reports in the General (On-Topic) section of the forum.

Actually, I joined in May and have enjoyed reading many build threads since...

[takashi]

@beeatnik

Did you get vaccinated?

[beeatnik]

Vaccination may in fact increase transmission:

Oh, and lest we forget: Pfizer has a long track record of making false claims.

"Pfizer has faced thousands of lawsuits filed for medical injuries caused by some of its most popular drugs. It has also set a record for the largest fine paid for a health care fraud lawsuit filed by the U.S. Department of Justice. Pfizer paid $2.3 billion in fines, penalties, and settlement for illegal marketing claims."

Source Seeger Weiss LLP: https://www.drugdangers.com/manufacturers/pfizer/

A few months ago I watched Dark Waters, after reading the NYT feature, the film is based on, a few years back. During the film and after, I entertained the thought: can this stuff still happen? But what I was really asking myself was: how often does this still happen?

I've been following all sides of the debate with deep interest. I'm not invested in either narrative so I'm not resistant to evidence which points to the possibility of ADE, Merak's, etc. It does concern me that many are only able to process a certain type of bad news.

[Tom]

Been to an oncologist on two separate intervals in excess of 50 treatments. See anybody smoking anywhere near? Not one goddamn time.

A lot of this boils down to something someone said jokingly to me years ago. "Who you gonna believe? Me or your lying eyes?"

Get vaccinated. Wear a mask. It works. Numbers don't lie.

[Too Tall]

Vaccination may in fact increase transmission:

Oh, and lest we forget: Pfizer has a long track record of making false claims.

"Pfizer has faced thousands of lawsuits filed for medical injuries caused by some of its most popular drugs. It has also set a record for the largest fine paid for a health care fraud lawsuit filed by the U.S. Department of Justice. Pfizer paid $2.3 billion in fines, penalties, and settlement for illegal marketing claims."

Source Seeger Weiss LLP: https://www.drugdangers.com/manufacturers/pfizer/

So you did not get vaccinated?

Your response (here) was flagged as misleading. Not starting a fight about right or wrong. It will be constructive, given the response, to drill into your claim(s) in order to foster a deeper understanding.

[j44ke]

Actually, I joined in May and have enjoyed reading many build threads since...

Well then, we hope you choose to expand your participation elsewhere. It is what make this forum's world go around.

On the YouTube reposts, understand that without being able to establish credibility or factual basis of what is said or who is saying it on a lot of these videos, they are difficult to process as source material.

[ctak]

Same. It is particularly concerning to me how emotionally invested / intolerant many vaccine-or-bust folks are given big pharmas track record of making false claims.

Best response I've seen to the question - are you vaccinated?