Just following orders.

[TTX1]

The activity at the borders - particularly the separation of families - is abhorent.

This is not what we are.

I feel terribly for those in law enforcecement who have been put in position to carry out this disasterous policy.

In the meantime, glad to see someone use Facebook in a constructive manner, for once...

California couple raises over $3 million on Facebook to reunite immigrant families separated at the border - CNN

[SteveP]

history will be harsh on many things these days in the USA.

[monadnocky]

Nah, don't you see? You're not looking at it from a utilitarian perspective. Forcibly removing terrified children from their impoverished parents fleeing third-world right-wing death squads and narco gangs is the only way to stop terrorism.
I mean what could possibly go wrong

[edoz]

I've come to realize that no matter how bad things get, a big chunk of the country is ok with it. Maybe this is who America is, and I'm in the wrong country.

[Too Tall]

Eff that Eric. If you are for somehing fight to keep it. I am NOT going to decamp because The Union has challenges. Votes put this into office votes put them out.

Lets comprimise, we can have a wee sanctuary in southern France for decompression purposes.

[Christian Fox]

Nah, don't you see? You're not looking at it from a utilitarian perspective. Forcibly removing terrified children from their impoverished parents fleeing third-world right-wing death squads and narco gangs is the only way to stop terrorism.
I mean what could possibly go wrong

Or, in the case of the largest group of asylum seekers, fleeing bottomless economic sinkholes (Venezuela) created by left wing dictators. The never-ending dysfunction south of us needs no political name tags; whether leadership is nominally left or right, it seems like it's always the same shitty outcome.

[dgaddis]

I see a lot of people complaining about this (rightly so), but what was happening previous to this policy? In other words, what's the alternative? I haven't heard anyone propose an alternative, tho there must be at least one (whatever the policy was previously). I'm pretty ignorant on immigration issues. Give me some schoolin' vSalon.

[caleb]

Meanwhile, the media finally picked up this week that real wages for a lot of the Trump base have been in decline since January: For the biggest group of American workers, wages aren’t just flat. They’re falling. - The Washington Post

That the administration is fanning the media flames of this toxic immigration dumpster fire at this moment seems like more than a coincidence.

[dgaddis]

Meanwhile, the media finally picked up this week that real wages for a lot of the Trump base have been in decline since January: For the biggest group of American workers, wages aren’t just flat. They’re falling. - The Washington Post

That the administration is fanning the media flames of this toxic immigration dumpster fire at this moment seems like more than a coincidence.

My understanding is they're using it as a political tool (if the Democrats would just come to the negotiations table, and fund the wall, we could talk about changing this policy) and a deterrent to illegal immigration (sneak across the border and we take your kids away).

[caleb]

My understanding is they're using it as a political tool (if the Democrats would just come to the negotiations table, and fund the wall, we could talk about changing this policy) and a deterrent to illegal immigration (sneak across the border and we take your kids away).

I think that's the narrative they've spun out of it. But I also think they'd rather talk about immigration than just about anything else.

You asked about the earlier policy. The very short version is that the Trump Admin has decided to criminally prosecute all illegal immigrants, including those who cross irregularly and then make asylum claims (first offense is a misdemeanor, second is a felony). During the prosecution process, parents are now held, sometimes for extended periods, which means they are separated from their children due to the Flores settlement. Those children are being held in contracted facilities before being released to family in the US or foster care.

Under Bush 43 and Obama, illegal immigrants caught at or near the border who had not otherwise committed a crime were given the option to be deported immediately rather than detained, so the family stayed together. Those who contested their removal and had children with them were often released with pending court dates. Immigration hardliners called this policy "catch and release," because many never showed up for their court dates and just melted into American society.

There has been no new law passed by Congress to cause this change. The change is 100% a result of the Administration's voluntary interpretation and application of the law.

[false_aesthetic]

I spent the weekend in the shop catching up on Podcasts. During the following RadioLab episodes I got ZERO work done.

Border Trilogy Part 1: Hole in the Fence | Radiolab | WNYC Studios

Border Trilogy Part 2: Hold the Line | Radiolab | WNYC Studios

Border Trilogy Part 3: What Remains | Radiolab | WNYC Studios


What strikes me is that these policies are considered successful if the "casualties" go up.

More people separated? SUCCESSFUL!
More corpses? SUCCESSFUL!

[j44ke]

Dustin, you cannot possibly think that separating children from their parents is an acceptable form of interdiction when it comes to managing immigration. And don't blame this on the Democrats. They haven't made any law that says the federal government must remove children from their parents when the parents attempt to immigrate illegally (and many of these immigrants are not coming across the border illegally - they are coming to the border and applying for asylum.) We have a President who is essentially taking children hostage for political purposes. These are tactics that have been used in Africa, the territories of the former Yugoslavia, Sri Lanka - places where the taking and holding of children has been a preamble to ethnic cleansing.

If our country has come to a position where rational American parents view holding innocent children in jail as an acceptable tactic in immigration policy then I think we have come to a very sad and dark place in our history.

If people have come here and attempted to immigrate illegally as a family, treat them as a family and return them to their country of origin as a family. Don't punish the children for the lack of consensus on immigration that exists in our country. It is simply unconscionable. You don't need to understand the details of the immigration problems or the history of government policy to know that treating small children this way is heinous.

[monadnocky]

Or, in the case of the largest group of asylum seekers, fleeing bottomless economic sinkholes (Venezuela) created by left wing dictators. The never-ending dysfunction south of us needs no political name tags; whether leadership is nominally left or right, it seems like it's always the same shitty outcome.

I agree, and I think you are missing my larger point.

[dgaddis]

Dustin, you cannot possibly think that separating children from their parents is an acceptable form of interdiction when it comes to managing immigration. And don't blame this on the Democrats. They haven't made any law that says the federal government must remove children from their parents when the parents attempt to immigrate illegally (and many of these immigrants are not coming across the border illegally - they are coming to the border and applying for asylum.) We have a President who is essentially taking children hostage for political purposes. These are tactics that have been used in Africa, the territories of the former Yugoslavia, Sri Lanka - places where the taking and holding of children has been a preamble to ethnic cleansing.

If our country has come to a position where rational American parents view holding innocent children in jail as an acceptable tactic in immigration policy then I think we have come to a very sad and dark place in our history.

If people have come here and attempted to immigrate illegally as a family, treat them as a family and return them to their country of origin as a family. Don't punish the children for the lack of consensus on immigration that exists in our country. It is simply unconscionable. You don't need to understand the details of the immigration problems or the history of government policy to know that treating small children this way is heinous.

Whoa, just to be clear, I'm not in favor of the policy. The 'blame it on the Democrats' are what the Republicans are trying to do (or are least, that's one interpretation I've heard). I was just genuinely asking what were we doing before we started doing this.

[Christian Fox]

I agree, and I think you are missing my larger point.

I think I get your point, and if I do understand it like I think I do, I agree 100% (awkward sentence)


My take and main concern: This policy is reprehensible and absurd...I am cringing waiting for a (God forbid) child to die in custody due to some unknown/undisclosed medical condition. I really hope that does not happen.

[monadnocky]

^^^ yeah, to be clear I don't care if people are fleeing reprehensible situations in El Salvador (gangs) or equally reprehensible situations in Venezuela (insane fiscal policies). Besides the abhorrent place we have sunk to as a society (and that's a big "besides"), this is terrible policy when it comes to national security.

[j44ke]

Whoa, just to be clear, I'm not in favor of the policy. The 'blame it on the Democrats' are what the Republicans are trying to do (or are least, that's one interpretation I've heard). I was just genuinely asking what were we doing before we started doing this.

Okay, what sort of previous policy would make separating small children from their parents an acceptable tactic? In other words, why would a history lesson actually be necessary to see the inhumanity of the situation? I think there are some things that are just wrong, no matter what came before them, and this is one of those things. Entertaining the policy as an introduction to discussion is to accord the policy some rational basis even if only by a tiny margin. It is not rational. It is cold blooded and inhumane. We are not that, and if we have come to that, I am very disheartened.

[Too Tall]

Okay, what sort of previous policy would make separating small children from their parents an acceptable tactic? In other words, why would a history lesson actually be necessary to see the inhumanity of the situation? I think there are some things that are just wrong, no matter what came before them, and this is one of those things. Entertaining the policy as an introduction to discussion is to accord the policy some rational basis even if only by a tiny margin. It is not rational. It is cold blooded and inhumane. We are not that, and if we have come to that, I am very disheartened.

You know the answer is none. (tactic).

Besides the abhorrent place we have sunk to as a society <<< What you mean "we"? Civility, law and order, freedom to express / vote / demonstrate what we as citizens want has not evaporated overnight. When I hear this I'm going to insist that the rational be broken into small chunks. Respect.

[vertical_doug]

According to talk radio and other 'pundits', these are child actors. It's obvious since the democrats have the hollywood cabal of supporters who are directors and screenwriters. This is just a liberal smear campaign against Trump. It's Hillary and Obama fault. These child actors were probably trained by Telemundo.

(according to the Pew Research Center, Can Americans Tell Facts from Opinions in the News? | Pew Research Center a large percentage of American adults will believe that crap I just wrote above. Unfortunately, the above is probably less crazy than the crap on the alt-right websites.)

[Saab2000]

The bullshit right wing of this nation can no longer co-opt terms like “family” and “pro-life” and support the barbarism of these assholes in office. I’m done using nice language.

Anyone who voted for these people stand up and be counted or vocally condemn this abhorrent policy with your loudest voices.

This is not “family friendly”. I’m ashamed this is happening in my country.