Purists and automobiles

[Brandon White]

I know there is a great market for classic cars and "purity", but how about buying new vehicles that are essentially stripped?

The new Porsche Cayman R has the option to remove the A/C and basic radio. Will this lack of feature be relevant to consumers? Or just be a hit among the real drivers out there (i.e. D. Kirk).

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/au...-prove-it.html

[Griffith]

It is a marketing miss. 2800+ pounds. A great car, but still overly complex and VERY heavy. Like bicycles, in sports cars weight is the enemy of good performance. Lotus approach is better: Start light weight, and add nothing but air cond. 2100 lbs. Porsche starts with a heavy car and tries to lighten it. Both are pure driving enjoyment machines. Porsche abandoned the less-is-more philosphy decades ago. Lotus has unassisted steering (less weight, excellent feedback; simplicity). They fitted power window lifts only after finding motors that weighed less than the manual system.

[Dave Kirk]

I agree with Griffith - taking the radio and AC out of a nearly 3000 pound car is a token gesture akin to using Ti bottle bolts instead of stainless in the effort to make a commuter a race bike. I think the design needs to be light from the start and this is the tough part from a design perspective. My Lotus is a 1900 pound car and it got there no because it doesn't have a radio (it does) or AC (it does) but because everything is light - the chassis and body are light which allows for light wheels and tires which allows for a smaller and lighter engine and so on and so forth. It's a positive feedback loop. When I got my Elise used a few years ago it needed work and while I had it apart I considered removing the AC to get the weight down even further. Now if it was a true track-only car it would have been a done deal but I use the car on the road a good bit. A bit of research pointed out that removing the AC and radio would take off less than 20 pounds in total. I was surprised by how little that stuff weighed and found out that they had designed them both to be as light and small as possible.

In the end I think the lack of AC/radio is a good and simple marketing ploy and that when push comes to shove most will tick the boxes to have the stuff added back in.

dave

[72gmc]

I'm glad the writer pointed out a preference for the 6-speed manual. I don't think I am a curmudgeon, but I do think too much automation makes today's average driver less skilled--and probably less safe. At least Porsche hasn't introduced an automated parallel parking feature.

[XR2]

True reliable performance only needs 2 wheels.

[lavi]

A Lotus Elise is a beautiful thing....as are motorcycles.

[bikinchris]

I think every company has done something like this. Back when my 1980 Mustang met it's demise (exactly four days after the last payment, it met a 1963 Chevy pickup), I was working at a Ford dealer. They offered to order an SVO Mustang in race mode. No carpet or sound deadeners, radio or A/C or back seat. and a full roll bar and 5 point belts from the factory.

[XR2]

Sad thing is that bike pictured above makes more HP than the Lotus.

[Dorman]

This is the way it use to be. You could order a car from the dealer in the '60's with radio delete, heater delete, none of them had AC anyway and the headers were in the trunk. Didn't happen much, but it was available. Weight is the enemy of speed and always has been. Now get back to bashing guys for wanting light bikes.

[jitahs]

More weight is the key to a quiet, smooth ride and "increased safety" imo. People don't want race cars, aside from Dave, to get groceries.
I have an 06 Miata @ 2500 lbs. that's a pig next to my 95 but I like it because it gets out of it's own way, has a shit ton of airbags, rides higher, has an engineered crumple zone and has more road presence.
It's all these that contribute to its obesity, but I'll take it. The Porchetta deal is just stupid.

[Too Tall]

Chances are the owner has a CX bike with no bottle mounts.
COME ON DAVE you laughed.

Not that I know anything about sports cars, Porsche would be at the top of my list to own for plain old reliable driving fun.

[ZenNMotion]

Dugast Rhinos on my Scion XB make it a hot rally car. Crumple zones are for pussies.

[dang]

I know there is a great market for classic cars and "purity", but how about buying new vehicles that are essentially stripped?

The new Porsche Cayman R has the option to remove the A/C and basic radio. Will this lack of feature be relevant to consumers? Or just be a hit among the real drivers out there (i.e. D. Kirk).

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/au...-prove-it.html

WSJ had a piece on this too. Sorta cool, but, OTOH, you saved very little weight by giving up the AC. If it's not a pure track car, and you live some place where it gets hot . . . I'm guessing you'd notice the sweat running down your back way before you noticed any performance advantage.

Not sure I rate at all as a "real driver," but that's how I see it. Keeping the radio, the AC, and the cup holders in my 2006 M3.

[quickag]

More weight is the key to a quiet, smooth ride and "increased safety" imo. People don't want race cars, aside from Dave, to get groceries.

My Legacy GT-B E-Tune wagon begs to differ...6 dead bodies + groceries + burnouts.

[Scott G.]

More weight is the key to a quiet, smooth ride and "increased safety" imo.

More weight sort of gets you to more safety given the materials cars are made from.
In bike terms cars are made from gas pipe with some 531 for the crumple zones,
certain odd Audis and Loti excepted. If you could afford a car made from Spirit and carbon,
you'd have a 1200 pound Miata. The Ultra Miata would be highly crash worthy and unrepairable.

[alexstar]

After a decade of car-free living, I'm getting the itch again. I think it's almost time to resurrect my 1960 VW beetle. Pretty 'pure' car - no AC, no radio, the heat is a joke, etc. For HP/weight it can't be beaten.

With a big naturally-aspirated engine, it screams. This time I gotta switch it up a little - maybe a turbocharger...

[bertiewhang]

A picture of this car would be nice.
Lee

[alexstar]

It's not much to look at, at the moment. Needs paint and some bodywork. You could call it a "work-not-yet-in-progress" - but I'll keep you apprised of the situation as it develops.

[bertiewhang]

Good man, I love Volkswagens.
Lee

[bikinchris]

More weight sort of gets you to more safety given the materials cars are made from.
In bike terms cars are made from gas pipe with some 531 for the crumple zones,
certain odd Audis and Loti excepted. If you could afford a car made from Spirit and carbon,
you'd have a 1200 pound Miata. The Ultra Miata would be highly crash worthy and unrepairable.

More weight only gets you more safety if two things are correct. Assuming sensible speeds:
1. The car you hit has to be smaller. With all of the Expediitons, Suburbans and Excursions as well as hotshot trucks (independent freight companies who usually work for the oilfield) around here, that's not going to help.
2. The vehicle you are driving is designed to be safe. A 1963 Lincoln can mow down a row of telephone poles and still be drivable, but YOU are dead. Pickup trucks are not actually very safe when hitting another pickup.