It’s telling that there’s no Impeachment thread on VS...

[vertical_doug]

That is indeed completely shocking and entirely unexpected news coming from office of Senator Barbara Boxer (D-California)!

The important fact is she was on FOX news. Not MSNBC or CNN

[lumpy]

That is indeed completely shocking and entirely unexpected news coming from office of Senator Barbara Boxer (D-California)!

What's shocking and unexpected is that Fox News would air it.

[Blue Jays]

"...She's not a Senator anymore..."

President Carter, President Clinton, President Bush, and President Obama are similarly no longer the POTUS.
Yet we still show them the courtesy and respect for the office by using that title. I call her Senator Boxer.

[mzilliox]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...e99_story.html

[Blue Jays]

"...What's shocking and unexpected is that Fox News would air it..."

Fox News has three commentators who would be considered reliably conservative: Tucker Carlson, Jeanine Pirro, and Laura Ingraham.
The others occasionally express modest conservative values, yet do not always remain with those principles.

[mzilliox]

That is indeed completely shocking and entirely unexpected news coming from office of Senator Barbara Boxer (D-California)!

of course its not shocking that Anyone would think this way, not just a former democratic senator. Because it aligns with the facts we all know to be true. He broke the law, its not a debate.
By Withholding Funds to Ukraine, Trump Broke the Law – Reason.com

what actually is shocking is there are able minding folks making a conscious decision to ignore reality in this.

[Blue Jays]

Many folks on this thread should begin steeling themselves President Trump will not be meaningfully impacted by these proceedings.
It is also likely President Trump will be reelected in 2020 in backlash to what vast swaths of America feel are genuinely partisan attacks.
For goodness sake, there are thousands of people outside in liberal New Jersey awaiting his speech, according to video coverage at his next rally.

[gregl]

For goodness sake, there are thousands of people outside in liberal New Jersey awaiting his speech, according to video coverage at his next rally.

And hundreds of thousands attended Hitler's Nuremberg Rallies. Attendance numbers do not equate to the ethical value of a rally.

Greg

[HorsCat]

President Carter, President Clinton, President Bush, and President Obama are similarly no longer the POTUS.
Yet we still show them the courtesy and respect for the office by using that title. I call her Senator Boxer.

If there is one thing that President Fucking Moron has unequivocally and wholeheartedly earned all by himself, it is a lifetime of disrespect. He is an embarrassment to the office of the Presidency and a permanent stain on American democracy.

[bigbill]

I heard an interesting theory this morning. That the White House sent the info about Bolton's book to the NYT. There hasn't been a direct quote, just paraphrased information. It would be interesting if it was all meant to troll democrats. If Trump knows nothing else, it's how to play people.

[Blue Jays]

"...Hitler's Nuremberg Rallies..."

This 2020 campaign approach is definitely very effective.
I know it attracts people when they are called SS troopers.
Who knew VSalon was harboring a selection of evildoers!

[mzilliox]

I heard an interesting theory this morning. That the White House sent the info about Bolton's book to the NYT. There hasn't been a direct quote, just paraphrased information. It would be interesting if it was all meant to troll democrats. If Trump knows nothing else, it's how to play people.

how would making trump look more guilty troll democrats? you mean because of the obvious flaunting of rules and norms game the white house is playing as they stick up their middle finger and tell everyone to eff off? this seems to damage trump and the feeble republican senators more than "troll" democrats. Its being suggested someone in the NSC review dept released the excerpts.

do we want a president who trolls? whos known for playing people? why is this desirable in a leader? What is wrong with us?

[vertical_doug]

how would making trump look more guilty troll democrats? you mean because of the obvious flaunting of rules and norms game the white house is playing as they stick up their middle finger and tell everyone to eff off? this seems to damage trump and the feeble republican senators more than "troll" democrats. Its being suggested someone in the NSC review dept released the excerpts.

do we want a president who trolls? whos known for playing people? why is this desirable in a leader? What is wrong with us?

This is simple. You embed some outright lies with the data trove you are sharing.
The NYT is so excited, they report on everything.

You then highlight the outright lies which are in bundled with the data to discredit all the true data. This is a classic tactic.

[bcm119]

I heard an interesting theory this morning. That the White House sent the info about Bolton's book to the NYT. There hasn't been a direct quote, just paraphrased information. It would be interesting if it was all meant to troll democrats. If Trump knows nothing else, it's how to play people.

This sounds plausible to me. Trump, or someone advising him, is very, very good at this sort of thing. He's been one step ahead of the democrats since 2016. Not that I don't believe he's guilty as sin, but his strategy has just been way beyond anything the democrats have ever faced.

[theflashunc]

I heard an interesting theory this morning. That the White House sent the info about Bolton's book to the NYT. There hasn't been a direct quote, just paraphrased information. It would be interesting if it was all meant to troll democrats. If Trump knows nothing else, it's how to play people.

The likelier explanation is what we've heard, that this was submitted to the NSC and leaked from there and hadn't made its way to the White House. The Senate GOP's response to the book details on Sunday and Monday alone signals this caught the entire kangaroo court flatfooted without prior knowledge and coordinated messaging.

[Corso]

of course its not shocking that Anyone would think this way, not just a former democratic senator. Because it aligns with the facts we all know to be true. He broke the law, its not a debate.
By Withholding Funds to Ukraine, Trump Broke the Law – Reason.com

what actually is shocking is there are able minding folks making a conscious decision to ignore reality in this.

I guess Trump is in good company:

Seven Times the GAO Found Former President Obama Broke the Law [List]

[theflashunc]

This sounds plausible to me. Trump, or someone advising him, is very, very good at this sort of thing. He's been one step ahead of the democrats since 2016. Not that I don't believe he's guilty as sin, but his strategy has just been way beyond anything the democrats have ever faced.

His strategy is to run out the clock in the courts and deny and obfuscate. That's it. The GOP has gotten pretty much obliterated in both special elections and the mid-term, and now he's going to be on the ballot again. Remains to be seen what the results will be, but he certainly hasn't widened his base of support at all, and sure found a way to begin to unite rather disparate factions elsewhere. And no matter who runs this time, it won't be Hillary Clinton. Dynamics in November are going to be very different.

[Matthew Strongin]

I guess Trump is in good company:

Seven Times the GAO Found Former President Obama Broke the Law [List]

I can't believe I'm taking the bait, but here goes....

That is utter nonsense. Did you actually read the article you posted? If so, do you believe that seven instances where the GAO found someone employed in government during Obama's presidency broke a rule or law is equivalent to Trump withholding aid for political gain? Trump directed an illegal act to influence a foreign government to take action for his personal political behalf. The "article" outlines crimes as severe as the HUD deputy secretary asking friends to lobby Senate. None of those were attributed to Obama's direction and none of them were indicated as being for his personal benefit. But since whataboutism reigns supreme, I'm sure someone with time to kill could find the GAO reports of all the similar "crimes" committed by the government under Trump.

But sure, if it'll make you feel better, let's go back and impeach Obama for:

The Federal Maritime Commission was found to have violated Section 711 of the Consolidated Appropriations Act, as well as the Antideficiency Act, in 2016 when it failed to notify the relevant Senate and House committees that it had spent more than $5,000 to furnish and redecorate the office of its former director in 2010. (The total amount spent was $12,084 over three years, as noted by the GAO in a footnote reference to an inspector general’s report on the excessive expenditures.)

[mzilliox]

I guess Trump is in good company:

Seven Times the GAO Found Former President Obama Broke the Law [List]

your habit of whataboutisms and false equivalences are at least consistent... ill give you that, but they are still bad faith arguments, no matter how many times you try it. why do you feel so stuck in the past when today is about today? but hillary, but obama, but the past, but but but.

Also, you ignore the entire point of all of this when you try to make these false equivalences. The point about Trump is he did these things to benefit himself and not the country. Why are you eager to ignore this? you cite 7 times somebody not named Obama made a choice that affected nobody named Obama. Not one of these things looks the least bit damning, do you actually read any of this?

The maritime commission spent 5k to redecorate???... oh no, impeach! cmon man, can we not approach this with a bit more good faith? you have completely missed the point.

[bcm119]

I guess Trump is in good company:

Seven Times the GAO Found Former President Obama Broke the Law [List]

I don't care about any of this stuff because it's negligible, but if you want to roll in this type of mud:
Scott Pruitt's $43,000 secret phone booth